Public Interest Criterion (PIC) 4020

There are currently 21 Public Interest Criteria in Schedule 4 of the Migration Regulations. They deal with Character, health checks, children moving between countries, signing the values statement and declarations that an applicant intends to live permanently in Australia (amongst other things).

The most recent addition is 4020.

On 2 April 2011 this criterion was inserted by way of amendments of the Migration Regulations into the following visa subclasses – 119 (Regional Sponsored Migration – Employer Nomination), 121 (Employer Nomination Scheme), 175 (GSM Skilled Independent), 176 (GSM Skilled State Territory Sponsored), 457 (Business Long Stay),476 (Skilled Recognized Graduate) , 485 (Skilled Graduate), 487 (Skilled Regional Sponsored), 495 (Skilled Independent Regional Provisional), 496 (Skilled Designated Area Sponsored Provisional), 856 (Employer Nomination Scheme) , 857 (Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme), 880 (Skilled Independent Overseas Student) , 881 (Skilled Australian Sponsored Overseas Student), 882 (Skilled Designated Area Overseas Student), 883 (Skilled Designated Area Sponsored Residence),885 (Skilled Independent), 886 (Skilled Sponsored) and 887 (Skilled Regional).

Sorry about all that detail but it is very important to know which visa subclasses this PIC applies to. Over recent months I’ve been seeing an increasing number of DIAC letters threatening to invoke 4020 that ask the applicant to “comment” on something that DIAC have a suspicion about and visa refusals on the basis of this PIC.

So we are all on the same page this is what 4020 actually says…

 (1)      There is no evidence before the Minister that the applicant has given, or caused to be given, to the Minister, an officer, the Migration Review Tribunal, a relevant assessing authority or a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth, a bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular in relation to:

(a)      the application for the visa; or

(b)      a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the application was made.

(2)      The Minister is satisfied that during the period:

(a)      starting 3 years before the application was made; and

(b)      ending when the Minister makes a decision to grant or refuse the application;

the applicant and each member of a family unit of the applicant has not been refused a visa because of a failure to satisfy the criteria in subclause (1).

(3)      To avoid doubt, subclauses (1) and (2) apply whether or not the Minister became aware of the bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular because of information given by the applicant.

(4)      The Minister may waive the requirements of any or all of paragraphs (1)(a) or (b) and subclause (2) if satisfied that:

(a)      compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or

(b)      compassionate or compelling circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen;

justify the granting of the visa.

(5)      In this clause:

information that is false or misleading in a material particular means information that is:

(a)      false or misleading at the time it is given; and

(b)      relevant to any of the criteria the Minister may consider when making a decision on an application, whether or not the decision is made because of that information.

So it’s all about bogus documents and information that is false or misleading.

If you’re not familiar with it the Immigration Advice & Rights Centre Inc. is a source of a mass of first rate reliable immigration information.


In relation to this topic (PIC 4020) they have a very interesting publically (I found it via Google) available article by Kerry Murphy an Immigration Law Specialist lawyer and a legend in the migration advice profession that is essential reading – See:;_Criterion_4020/

Bottom line here is that DIAC have been finding too many questionable documents and this is their response. PIC 4020 is not asking every applicant to become a forensic expert and verify every document – that is simply impossible. As I read it the intent of PIC 4020 is to assess the intention of the applicant. Did the applicant knowingly submit a bogus document or provide misleading information with the intention of committing fraud or misleading DIAC, the MRT etc… 4020 is not there to catch out the innocent. If you do manage one way or another to fall foul of PIC 4020 get professional advice ASAP!

1,134 responses to “Public Interest Criterion (PIC) 4020

  1. Happy New Year Grant.
    Thanks for the plug.
    Best wishes, Mark

    • Hi Mark,
      Your website is really good and provides a lot of information.
      i just wanted to know that i applied for 485 on 14 june 2011. Currently, i am doing a professional year course which will finish soon. I will be eligible to apply under the current rules with 65 points. According to your analysis, do u thing that i will be granted the 485 before 1st july, since iam not able to apply for another visa till iam not granted 485. the allocation dates are exactly at 1 year according to the DIAC website.
      will there be any priority processing for professional year students.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Yahya
        No you cannot apply for 885 until you get the 485 and no ther is no priority processing for professional year students.
        When you’ll get the 485 I cannot say I’m afraid as it depends on DIAC.
        Grant Williams

      • Hi,
        Thanks for the reply. Want to ask another thing related to skills select which will be introduced on 1 july 2012. On their site it says
        “If you are in the transitional group, you will not be affected by SkillSelect.

        If you are currently subject to transitional arrangements, you are encouraged to submit an EOI. By submitting an EOI, this would allow employers and state or territory governments to view your details to discuss visa opportunities.”
        Does this mean that if we were students (masters degree)on 8 feb 2010, we wont come under the new rules on 1 july 2012. becus we come under a transitional arrangement and have already applied for 485. Cudnt understand what it means. Can you please explain what it means.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Yahya

        There are two classes of ‘transitional’ applicants. Those who held or had applied for a 485 on 8 Feb 2010 and those who were on a Student visa (like you) on 8 Feb 2010. The first group can proceed to PR up until 31 Dec 2012 under the old system. You on the other hand are only able to move to the 485 visa stage under the old system. Any application you make for PR must be under the new regulations. So after 1 July 2012 you will be subject to the new Skill Select EOI system.

        Grant Williams JP 195363 Registered Migration Agent MARN 0854799 Immigration Pty Ltd Suite 35 / 647 – 649 George St Sydney 2000 PO Box K1221 Haymarket NSW 1240 Telephone: +61 2 92114694 Mobile: +61 (0) 430351877 Email: Blog:

    • Hi Grant,
      thank you for your response. ive been living in western australia for 2 years. Have also completed my masters degree(about one year of study in WA) which is fulltime. Currently iam doing a professional year course in WA which gives us a certificate 3 in business(part time). will this combination of fulltime and part time study fullfill the 2 years study requirement in wa. becus as far as i cann see on their website, it does not full time or part time and says study completion letter in wa. am i illigible to apply for state sponsorship for western australia.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Yahya I’m not really well versed in WA state sponsorship as I work in NSW. I’d suggest you consult a good migration agent in WA about this. It’s their area of expertise and I don’t want to mislead you. It will take me too long to do all this research – not really why the Blog is here. Grant Williams

      • Hi grant,I had enquiry about 4020.diac refuse my application on the basis of 4020, but I provide two times stat dec from my emlpoyer.even my employer are willing to go with me in mrt , is there any possibility to win in mrt if my employer is standby with me.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        From what you say which is very little i’d say yes.

      • Thanks for reply,actually I applied 485 visa in july 2008,as a pastry cook from pastry art design but my bakery name was in list of diac list which they said that are not genuine.but when my file was open in 2011 my owner give me state dec that I work there becoz my work was genuine.but diac refuse my application they said we will give little weight to your owner stat dec but we were nt satisfy so they refuse my 485 visa and they refuse under fraudulent document provide to diac 4020.then I applied can u plz suggest me is there any possibility to win the mrt because my employer is with me and he is agree to cme with me at mrt hearing.thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Under Does not sound promising if the employer already has a record of some sort of fraud or misrepresentation. GW

        Sent from my iPad

      • Hi grant, I won Mrt on 27 January 2015 on my 485 skilled graduate visa. And Mrt member said that I met Pic 4020 in his decesion and to reconsider my application to immigration. But after that now it’s already 2 months but Immi didn’t give any reply.can u plz let me know how long it will take or what they are looking in my application. Thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        There is no set time but I’d expect you will hear from DIBP quite soon.

      • Hi grant, I won Mrt on 27 January 2015 on my 485 skilled graduate visa. And Mrt member said that I met Pic 4020 in his decesion and to reconsider my application to immigration. And this decision would also help me in my 886 application. Because Immi also refuse my 886 application and my case was now in MRT due to same reason that I do not meet PIC 4020 due to false or bogus document. Thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Yes that is excellent it may well solve two problems at once.

  2. Hi Grant,

    How are you?,Thanks for sharing kind of useful information with all of us..I have one question, this is my timeline for lodged gsm885visa
    Gsm485 lodged on 1/2/2010
    Professinal year 1/3/2011
    Gsm485 granted 4/8/2011
    I married my girlfriend in Australia on 29/8/2011
    Gsm885 lodged 12/9/2011 including her
    C/o allocated on 21/11/2011 but still no reply form his/her
    what could be the reason behind it? i am really worried about it..

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Nirav
      The Christmas New Year period is very slow as many DIAC case officers are on leave. I’m sure you will hear from them soon.
      Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant, thanks for reply, i have sent two msg since CO allocated but still no reply. I lodged my file in 15days after i married my girlfriend, would it be a big issue for immigration to make them think?.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Nirav Yes this could be slowing down the process. DIAC of course want proof that a relationship is genuine. Simply handing over a marriage certificate means very little. I assume you have given them other proof of the genuine nature of your relationship/ Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant. I have given merriage cert, form no 888, my marriage photografs, me and my wife’s written statement, joint teneny letter, and bank statement. Would that be enough? Or i have to give more evedance to prove my gennun marriage?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Nirav That should be enough. If the case officer wants more they will ask for it. Grant Williams

  3. Welcome back and Happy New Year – hope you had a nice break!

    Has it occurred to anyone we have too many visa classes and simplification could be a wonderful thing?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Robyn

      Yes over the last 15 years I’ve seen the notion of simplification raised, embraced and partially implemented. Then over time it just fills up again with new visas. The present government is making all sorts of simplification noises. Time will tell but Federal governments rarely simplify things! Grant Williams

  4. Hello Grant,
    How are you? Your advice will change my life.
    I have done TRA in 2009 and that was pure genuine , i have worked even after when my TRa was approved. I have only made a mistake that my restaurant owner told me that she cannot make experience letter , you have to get it from someone else and just show it to me before sending it to TRA. One of my friend suggested me to Carmine and i only did letter from him, but my experience was genuine. In 2010 Tra send me letter that my tra will be cancelled and if you want to revoke it send you comments. I used to write diaries that time and i always write my classes and working hours in restaurant. and also when Immigration come to my Restaurant to talk to my owner , i was working that time over there and they saw me there. I have send Tra all the records and statutory declaration from my side and from my restaurant owner , and after sometime after the investigation , they send me letter that my Tra remains valid. AFter that i have applied 886 visa on that basis, But on 24/01/2012 received an email from GSM which is detailed :

    It has been brought to the Department’s attention that you may not satisfy PIC 4020 on the
    basis of the following information being submitted to the Department:
    On 15/5/2010, in support of your application for a 886 subclass visa, you provided to the Department a
    skills assessment from Trades Recognition Australia (TRA). To obtain this skill assessment, you
    supplied to TRA documents supporting your 900 hours work experience
    On 4 November 2011, a Carmine Amarante pleaded guilty to the manufacture and sale of work
    references matching the one submitted to Trades Recognition Australia (TRA) to obtain your skills
    assessment. Amarante has admitted the documents were fraudulent in content and that they were
    created to assist you to apply for permanent residence in Australia.
    As a result of these events we have reason to believe that the skills assessment submitted as part of
    your 886 application has been fraudulently obtained.
    Please be advised that PIC 4020 requires that there is no evidence before the Minister that the
    applicant has given, or caused to be given, to the Minister, an officer, the Migration Review
    Tribunal, a relevant assessing authority or a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth, a bogus
    document or information that is false or misleading in relation to:
     the application for the visa; or
     a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the application was
    As evidence has been found in your application that suggests a bogus document or
    information that is false or misleading in a material particular has been submitted, you are
    strongly encouraged to carefully read the following information to further understand how
    this matter can be addressed with the Department.

    Please guide me what should i do , i am really stressed , Your advice will make some difference. PLease tell me what should i do , i only have 28 calendar days. Please help me.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Sweety
      What you have here is a major problem. DIAC have prima facie evidence that you have submitted a bogus document. They have a conviction against the supplier of this document. You admit to this to me above. Whichever way you explain your actions to DIAC you have still given them a bogus document. DIAC will refuse your application in my opinion sighting PIC 4020. They are not in the least bit understanding of your position. You can try to convince them but in the end the facts will be the same.
      Sorry there is no magic fix once you’ve made this sort of mistake.
      Grant Williams

      • But Grant. That person was acting as an Agent in market. But we haven’t done any Fraud the documents we have provided to TRA was Genuine our Intention was Genuine..The letter we have provided was genuine the only thing we have got letter written by him as our employer told he is good agent. Another thing my husband , bothers sister and parents are Australian Citizens and Permanent. they planning to leave Australia if we leave as we have attachments with them my Parent in Law cant live without us. If they give a declaration and all family give declaration does it comes under compelling and compassionate circumstances .

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        What DIAC have alledged is not necessarily that you manufactured the bogus document but that you submittted the bogus document. Now you say the foundation information upon which the document was raised was all true and correct and that you submitted the document in good faith. DIAC clearly feel that given the circumstances of this ‘agent’ that you were in some way involved in this fraud.
        All the business about your family is not relevant to this situstion nor would it constitute compelling & compassionate circumstances.
        Your only hope here is stay focused on proving that you provided the document believing it to be bnao fide.
        You really do need to get some professional help in submitting your application.
        Grant Williams

    • Sweety can you please reply me back on my e-mail as I got the same case like you my e-mail address is

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        This is your second post looking for your friend. This is not Facebook – that’s enough.
        Grant Williams

    • hey,

      u can try employer sponsorship visa in any other catageory means occupation but not in same field which u got rejection or pic 4020. u can apply in australia only paper visa not online. u can talk with 457 visa unit in parramatta if ur in nsw.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Hi Garry Not sure what you’re suggesting here but if an applicant has had 4020 applied by DIAC to refuse an application the only way forward is to have that decision overturned at the MRT. Not all visa subclasses have the PIC 4020 as a criterion at time of decision however DIAC have other avenues to follow up applicants who have provided false, misleading or bogus information in previous applications. For example they can raise a character issue under s.501 and use this as a basis for refusal. Anyone in this situation is best advised to seek professional advice to see if it is worthwhile attempting any subsequent application. It’s easy to waste a large amount of money and get nowhere. Grant Williams

  5. Dear Grant, Your blog stands out as genuinely helping people understand this incredible complexity – thank you very much. My overseas friend has Certificate III & IV in cooking (but not Diploma) and has moved to a QLD mining area in the hope of 857 sponsorship as a cook. He has 2 years relevant experience and did all the study here. IELTS score & age are fine. Does he have a realistic chance of success under “exceptional circumstances” provisions of avoiding the need to have a Diploma level qualification? Has anyone ever had success in this? From my google research it looks very doubtful but I can’t find anything related to this exact question. Is there any kind of anonymized database which gives a summary of a individual cases and outcomes? Many Thanks!

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Thomas
      No database I’m afraid. Lots of leg work to find cases.
      I don’t see that he’ll really have a problem with GSM as the qualification for a Cook is CertIII
      ANZSCO says…
      In Australia:
      AQF Associate Degree, Advanced Diploma or Diploma, or at least three years of relevant experience
      (ANZSCO Skill Level 2); or
      AQF Certificate III including at least two years of on-the-job training, or AQF Certificate IV, or at least three
      years of relevant experience (ANZSCO Skill Level 3)
      He seems to meet the second with AQF Cert III + 2 years exp???
      Grant Williams

  6. Dear Grant, You are a kind soul helping distressed immigration seeking people. I seek your expert advice to find out the best way for me. I am an International student studying IT in Monash and unluckily will graduate after July, 2012 when the new EOI will be implemented. I currently meet the minimum points for 175 and also have my occuption in the Victorian sponsorship list. As the bridging visa is going to go away in July, 2012 till an applicant receives PR invitation after Jan, 2013. Do you think it is in my best interest to lodge offshore PR before july 2012. I am afraid that processing time for 885 is not going to improve with the new EOI format and in that case, I will be losing good 7-8 months if I do not file 175/176 before July. If this helps, I am currently employed in the area of my studies. Any advice is highly appreciated.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Simone
      Your situation will soon become the normal position for all GSM applicants. Yes you could lodge offshore but these visa are also EOI. To stay here while you wait for / hope for an EOI invitation you will need to get a new visa. Employment, given the limited amount of information I know about your case seems the obvious option. This is the government’s preferred option / highest priority. You need to sort out whether it is possible for a direct Employer Nomination (ENS) application for PR or whether you’ll have to go for TR visa the Business Long Stay (457) program – both of course require employer applications and a willingness from your employer to sponsor you.
      Grant Williams

  7. Thanka Grant for your response. I understand that offshore PR would go EOI after July,2012. Should I lodge an oddshore PR before July and take TR 485 after my student visa expires i.e. In Aug, 2012? ENS is not an option for me but 487 might be possible. However 487 or 485 are both temporary visas and I want PR. I am positive that I will get invitation to file PR if I submit EOI, but I want to avoid filing 885 in 2013 unless the processing times are promised to be faster. So my options are- to file 176 or 175 before July or file 885 in 2013. Which one do you sugest is best route?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Simone I can’t tell you what to do. However 885 processing times are very short for new applications for occupations on the SOL under the new points test. The last one we had granted was less than 3 months from date of application and it had a complicated medical for a non-migrating child. Sometimes under the new system you have to move to TR before you can get PR. So TR for work might be worth considering. Grant Williams

  8. Hi Grant,

    I a have critical issue with my GSM application with 1 year experience.

    I have applied for v885 under old points system with a 1 year experience in IT. My total experience is 18 months at the time of lodgement with 10 months of fulltime and 8 months of permanent part-time (18.75 hours/2.5 days). I have continued working in the company even now. My case officer was not convinced by this one. I don’t have any other commercial experience to satisfy the 52 weeks rule.

    Could you please let me know what can I do regarding this…..?
    What is the chance of getting through a MRT?

    Thanks for your help in advance.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Hi Prasad
      First I need more info to be able to advise you. Are you saying you applied for 885 and DIAC are saying you do not meet the threshold recent work experience requirement 12 last 24 months recent relevant work experience? For GSM the definition of ‘work’ is a minimum of 20 hours per week. So your 18.75/week will not fly I’m afraid. That’s why the case officer says you only have 8 months not 12.
      Grant Williams

      • Thanks for the response!

        Yes Grant I have applied for 885 GSM visa. I have applied through a migration agent who said that there is a possibility of DIAC accepting this.
        My initial offer was given as 2.5 days and I misunderstood that it is equivalent to 20 hours.

        Now I am waiting for the response from the case officer on it.

        Can you please advise me what is the best possible way for me.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Prasad This is difficult I’d be asking the agent what basis they had for considering that DIAC would accept work experience that did not meet the GSM definition of work. If it is refused then it would seem that that advice was less than stellar.

        What can you do? Well it’s not possible to change your story and say oh it was actually 20 hours a week as they will then say you’ve attempted to mislead them and quote Public Interest Criterion 4020 even though you’ve disadvantaged yourself.

        It rather depends on what the case officer does next. If they ask for a further submission I guess you have some wiggle room. They could of course just refuse the application for not meeting the threshold criterion.

        What does your ‘agent’ say?

        Grant Williams

  9. Dear Grant,
    Love your blog and everyday I visit it to see if there is a new post. Just one question, I have applied for a GSM 886 visa back in September 2009. According to you & this is just a guess, do you think that I would get my visa before the 1st week of April. I ask this because I have very good friend’s wedding 2nd week of April and would like to travel overseas as he has asked me to be in his wedding party. Thanks

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Hi Stafford
      I’m pleased you enjoy the Blog.
      I’d say no I’m afraid. Reports suggest that DIAC are somewhere into early to mid 2008 application dates now – so that’s still more than a year’s worth of application ahead of you. No one can say how applications are distributed in the P5 group – how many reside in each month – they have the figures they just don’t release them.
      If you’re on a BVA you could apply for a BVB and travel to the wedding. Form 1006 fee $105 last time I looked. Apply within two weeks of wanting to travel and make sure you come back before the BVB expires. If you’re not on a BVA this will not work.
      Grant Williams

      • Thanks for your reply Grant,
        I am currently on a BVA but was/still hoping to get my PR visa by April as I am unsure if there will be any problems in getting my PR if I switch to a BVB or if my application is assigned to a case officer while I am away for the 2 weeks. Fingers crossed they aren’t to many new applications.

  10. Sorry Grant for posting a comment to person before Very sorry.

    Grant if you can help me plz DIAC refused my Visa class 886 application on the basis of fraudalent information obtained.And I actually worked in the restaurant and cant able to produce any further signed from restaurant owner.
    What you think results in Mrt would be.I am still working in different restaurant on casual basis Is that going to be any helpful.How long Mrt processing time normally takes.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Gary Well that’s a problem. So are you saying that the document provided to DIAC was not fraudulent? Or are you saying that you actually worked there however the document you provided was not completely true and correct? If you go to the MRT and provide no additional evidence to demonstrate that DIAC are not correct you will lose. First please explain your situation and then I’ll make some suggestions. If you have actually provided a bogus document nothing will help! Grant Williams

  11. My application was rejected on the basis of fraudelent information as Diac stated that they find my name from some person computer who was jailed and he admit that he provided the work experience to me.But I actually worked there my owner admits that I work in the restaurant but he cant sign me any letters.I applied Mrt.What you think Mrt results would be.And how long waiting period of Mrt.Any other option left after Mrt.
    Gary Bhinder

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Gary There are lots of people who have been caught in this sting and conviction. Why can’t you employer sign any letters? The MRT wait may be 12 -24 months. You will only have a chance at the MRT if you can actually prove you worked there. Why did you get the experience letter from this person if they were not your employer? You need professional help! Grant Williams

  12. Hi Grant,

    I have recieved a letter from Immigration in 2009 saying as per the workplace records I jave done less than required hours & the letter I have recieved from my Employer and used for TRA is not genuine. I provided them with a stat dec, breakdown of 900 hours from company again. Again in 2012 I have recieved same letter with PIC 4020. Wht should I do. I am genuine, my letter is , my TRA is valid.What is my fault?? If the company cannot keep the rcords properly why am i At fault. What should i do?Please suggest.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear m
      From a Migration law standpoint it is your responsibility to ensure or make all reasonable efforts to ensure that all the information provide to DIAC is correct. PIC 4020 now applies to all GSM applications. You MUST respond to this 4020 letter in the strongest possible terms and provide as much additional evidence as possible to support your position that you have met the work experience requirement. There are currently quite a few people in this situation in relation to the conviction of one individual who supplied work experience letters. I’m not sure obviously if you are one this group.Just giving them what they already have will not solve this problem. If you’re unsure what else to provide you need to seek professional assistance that allows a representative to look at all your documents and then assist in the response.
      Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant, Thanks for the reply. I have provided all the proofs and declarations poosible to them again. Its just that the documents are same as which i provided last time when i recived the letter.And they will always remain the same because they are genuine. I have worked these hours sincerely. And after completion of 900 hours i have recievd the refernce letter.I am concerend why were they not satified with these documents at first place.

        Thanks for the advice.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear M Clearly they are not satisfied and you need to get more. You need to start thinking who else can give you Commonwealth Statutory Declaration in relation to the time you worked? Fellow employees? Customers? Other students from your institution? Just giving them the same stuff cannot solve the problem. Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant,
        Thanks for the quick reply & your advice.

  13. Hi Grant
    I hope this is the relevant section to post this query. I’ve spent close to 1 year trying to complete my ENS Subclass 856 application forms. My company submitted their side, after some considerable to-ing and fro-ing with DIAC, in November. My company received a couple of requests, with regards to documentation clarification, in December but we haven’t heard from them since. I subsequently submitted my side in the middle of Jan and received confirmation from DIAC a day later that the application was deemed valid.
    I had heard some very positive stories coming up to Christmas where 3 of my friends, under the ENS scheme, received their approvals within 3-5 weeks. 2 other friends, with the assistance of Migration agents, received theirs in under two weeks.
    In your experience, was there any particular reason for this splurge of visa approvals? Can I expect the same speedy reply and if not, have you any tips to somehow speed up the process?
    Obviously, with the assistance of my recently approved friends applications, and after diligently providing all the appending documentation requesting and more – I’m confident I’ve provided all the necessary appending documentation.

    Any advise or tips would be greatly appreciated

    Keep up the good work

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear E
      Migration Agents have a special system in relation to ENS applications known as the Decision Ready Checklist. We sign off on this if every necessary document is included in an application when it is lodged. If we don’t do this correctly we lose this special access.
      We generally get decison ready applications approved in about 2 weeks.
      Your 856 visa application cannot be processed until your employers Nomination has been approved. Then they will look atthe 856.
      Time frame as they have had to ask for documents is very difficult to say as I have not seen your application – usually quite a few months.
      Once you’re at this point all you can do is wait for DIAC and do what they ask asap.
      Grant Williams

  14. Hi Grant

    Thanks for the above. I really appreciate your swift response.

    I’m well aware of the Decision Ready process (I’ve become pretty well briefed with the system over the past year) but my HR Manager, I thought, was across everything and hence a Migration agent wasn’t deemed necessary (a regret in hindsight).

    In April of last year, she apparently put in the Employers Nomination side. There were questions from DIAC however, because our company had been recently taken over and hence DIAC were suspicious about the validity of our new company name (I won’t bore you with the details).

    There has been correspondence between my employer and DIAC since then and a renewed Employer Nomination, with all the subsequently requested info from DIAC regarding the company etc, submitted in November as outlined above.

    Is it typical for the Nomination to take this long? My company were 250 people strong, having done countless 457’s (mine took 2 days to process), and now we’re under the umbrella of a company that employ 13,000 people worldwide. I wouldn’t have thought DIAC would be suspicious of a company of this size and stature. And even so, having provided all the required documentation over a 7/8 month period consultation period, things would be done by now.

    Again, thanks for all your help.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear E The general quoted queue time is 10.5 months. You’ve had two digs at the Nomination so I’m not surprised it’s taking this long. They don’t weigh the applications by company size they simply apply the Migration Regulations and it is up to the applicant – company or person – to provide documents to show they meet the criteria.

      Once DIAc feel there is a problem they basically check and cross check everything – again makes the proces much slower.

      Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant
        Is there any options available if u are thinking pic 4020 can be apply on ur visa u applied for?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Gurbrinder

        Why would you be thinking that?

        Grant Williams JP 195363 Registered Migration Agent MARN 0854799 Immigration Pty Ltd Suite 35 / 647 – 649 George St Sydney 2000 PO Box K1221 Haymarket NSW 1240 Telephone: +61 2 92114694 Mobile: +61 (0) 430351877 Email: Blog:

      • Because one of my work colleague got that latter and I m afraid may be they will send me too . I had applied for 886 on 4/7/2009.Plz suggest.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        You can only wait and see and then respond if you get the 4020 letter. You know if your work experience is all genuine. If it’s not then all you can do is expect DIAC to find out. Grant Williams

  15. Hi Grant,
    A dishonest officer from Australian embassy in my country has submitted a false investigation report about my job responsibilities in my previous company. That’s why my case officer has sent a SFI letter to me on June 2011. My visa type is 475 GSM.

    Can you suggest me what can I do? Because its already 8 months gone after submission of all documents asked by my case officer. Who iswill be responsible for this unwanted situation and delay?


    For your study you can read my previous company’s HR letter to DIAC case officer:-

    “Dear Sir,

    Our Ex employee, Mr. ((())) came in ((())) on (((())) and showed me the SFI letter which he has received from you, dated on ((()))). I have carefully read your letter and totally surprised that the investigation visa officer from Australian embassy in ((())), who just contacted with me over telephone, has submitted a misleading, wrong and self-perception made faulty investigation report to DIAC. The job responsibilities, that (((())) has submitted to DIAC is 100% correct and genuine.

    The investigation visa officer from Australian embassy in((()))contacted with me over telephone to do quarry about Mr. ((())) job responsibilities, duties and others confidential sophisticated information. But ((((())) has some strict code of conducts. As like:-
    • We never provide any confidential sophisticated and detail information of any employee of our company over telephone.
    • And though Mr. ((())) was our Ex employee, all his detail database and information has frozen to our central store. So, in our running server only his basic and general data has preserved.

    So, I invited that visa officer to come to our office physically and collect the detail information. But after that telephone conversation, he never came to collect the detail information. Rather, he was interested to collect only that general and basic information about ((()))) over telephone from me. So, I provided him only the general information. And I strongly believe that he has prepared his investigation report based on that general information. That’s why he has submitted a misleading, wrong and self-perception made faulty investigation report to DIAC.”

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear AAH
      First you need to be very careful about making claims of dishonesty. You were not preent when the call was made and you only have the word of your former employer. DIAC officers and sometimes DFAT oficers are regularly tasked with the job of confirming work experience claims made by applicants. They check it’s their job! If you disagree with the assessment (and you are being given the opportunity to respond) then respond calmly, state your position and support what you say with aditional supporting evidence. Letters. statutory delcarations from the employer and perhaps others who worked withere at the same time. If you accuse officials in this manner it will not help your cause. What possible reason could a person who does not know you at all have to falsify their report? The person may have drawn the wrong conclusions from the information they were given. However over the years I’ve found when we obtain reports under Freedom of Information that it is the respondant to DIAC questions (your employer) who give vague or at times misleading information and can’t really be bothered expanding when they are asked often giving reasons like company policy. If they’ve supplied a written reference to you and you have used it they have your explicit permission to release all you relevant information – so claiming the records are all locked up or company policy prevents is just nonesense I’m afraid and DIAC assume that there may be issues with the reference. I would draw the same conclusion! You need to respond with as much detailed information as possible. Pay records, tax records, examples of work related correspondence from the company to you etc…more is better than less in this case.
      Grant Williams

  16. Hi Grant,

    Thanks for your time and response. I liked your suggestion. But I am not coincide with your personal Conclusion.

    Lets wait for DIAC decision. Hope they will approve my application shortly.

    THANKS again.

  17. hi giant
    how DIAC asses pic 4020.

  18. Hey Grant…..absolutely wonderful blog…..I was reading above comments regarding PIC 4020 and was wandering if there’s not enough evidence to prove genuiness of your experience letter would it be good idea to withdraw your application and apply on fresh basis. Say, if you have australian partner, applying offshore defacto/spouse visa would be worth or it still comes under PIC 4020?

    Also I have got another question….my partner applied for 485 visa in 02/09/2008 and 10 days later applied for 886 visa as his student visa was running out and we thought just to be on safe side go for 485. As it’s a long wait and there’s no hope of getting residency sooner. Do you think, if we withdraw his 886 file but 485 remains active keeping him on bridging visa A. Leave country for a day and apply offshore spouse visa and then 485 file keeps processing and once offshore spouse visa is granted, his 485 file can be withdrawn as well.

    Awaiting our reply. Thanks


    • Hi Grant,

      If visa has been refused under PIC4020 . I am going to marry with Australian Citizen. 3 yearbar still implement on my case or not.


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Chamak
        Not a simple answer I’m afraid. The only answer I can d=ghive is…That depends.
        It depends on lots of factors. For example to 4020 reason for refusal. Everything else about you – police certificates, medicals etc… past info held by DIAC. Then there’s the actual partner application – you must be able to prove a ‘genuine’ relationship. Just being married does not = genuine relationship I’m afraid.
        You need to seek professional advice. It’s not going to be as simple as you hope!
        Grant Williams

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Sam
      4020 is not easy to get around if an applicant has in fact prvoded false or misleading info and DIAC have proof. Just becasuse 4020 may not be a criteriaon on a vias subclass doeas not mean DIAC will not raise this action as a general character issue under s.501. Simply withdrawing an application does not mean that the provision of the ‘false’ documnet has not occurred. There may be an option to address this in certain applications where other rights (say of an Australian citizen partner) have greater sway than say a false work experience letter but each case will be looked at individually and you cannot assume it will all be OK. When confronted with a DIAC natural justice letter an applicant must respond in full and should seek professional assistance.
      Your other scenario is rather complicated and I’m not an advocate of multiple applications as some sort of back up system. I’d keep the applications that are in active. If the 485 is all fully documented and valid in every way it will be granted and and run for 18 months. If the 886 does not get approved before the 485 expires lodge the Partner onshore from the 485 in a decison ready format (you’ll have lots of time to get it perfect) before the 485 expires.
      Grant Williams

  19. I got letter regarding my file for tr that I had submit fraud information to department immigration department send me an invitation to comment so I submit my owners stat deceleration , one of my friend deceleration who usually drop me to my work and one more deceleration of my husband what is ur opinion what will they give me my decision

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear Jasmine
      What ‘fraud’ are they saying you have committed? They will pay no attention to anything from your husband.
      Generally anyone in this situation needs to get immediate professional help to respond to DIAC. Howver you’ve already responded. I have not seen the letters you’ve sent or the detail they covered nor do I know what docs you sent that have triggered the DIAC letter but I would not be confident that they will be convinced from your response.
      Grant Williams

      • They r saying that the work experience which I submit for tra skill assessment was not genuine it was created by carmine amrante but I don’t know who is carmine I neveret him , my work experience was voulantere and it is genuine my owner gave me a stat deceleration again that I had worked there and the information provided was correct and he said that immigration department can contact him any time relating my work experience . I submit that deceleration so I want to
        Know that what will their response for me I really get upsett because I don’t know who what immigration department exactly wants from me pl guide me for that

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear jasmine. Carmine Amarante was convicted recently in Victoria of supply around 700 false work references for a number of businesses who were working with him. Everyone DIAC has found on his computer systems has been sent a 4020 letter. It seems some are in fact genuine applicants but the majority are bogus. It would seem your employer has been using this person to produce the work experience letters. I have had many people ask the same questions you are. The only thing you can do is try to convince DIAC your work is genuine by giving them as much independent evidence as possible. Grant Williams

      • What type of personnel evidence I have to submit can u pl suggest me anything

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Jasmine You need *independent* evidence – other people who are not related to you who can attest to the fact that you worked at the establishment – regular customers, other students you studied with, other employees. You worked there try to think of anyone else who also knew that you worked there and get a Commonwealth Statutory Declaration from them.

        Grant Williams JP 195363 Registered Migration Agent MARN 0854799 Immigration Pty Ltd Suite 35 / 647 – 649 George St Sydney 2000 PO Box K1221 Haymarket NSW 1240 Telephone: +61 2 92114694 Mobile: +61 (0) 430351877 Email: Blog:

    • Sorry what type of independent evidence I have to submit can u pl guide me for that

  20. Hello again Grant

    I’m in a right mess. It now appears that my application (along with another colleague’s) is not valid because my company changed names in January 2012. Of course DIAC don’t tell you this when you apply, they simply take your money and let you in limbo for God knows how long. Hence my 457 was transferred to this new ‘company’, and I now have to work another 12 months for this ‘company’ even though I’ve sat in the same seat, in the same building, for the same bosses, for close to the last 4 years. It seems penal to be put me to the back of the queue for this. Have you any advice on dealing with this issue?

    I feel like just giving up. I’m an Irish senior civil engineer with qualifications coming out my ears. It shouldn’t be this difficult surely

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear E Not sure who is actually doing this application for you but if all that has actually happened is an ASIC change of name and the ABN and ACN are still the same that should not create this problem. Do you have any DIAC correspondence on this. Does not sound right to me. Where are you? City? Perhaps give me a call as this is too complicated to be done via Blog posts. Grant Williams 0430351877 or 02 92114694

  21. hey Grant,
    under pic 4020 , there are compelling and compassionate reason- minister can waive the factors. if someone’s employer apply for waive of pic4020 because the employer need his/her( patner) skill. is it any chances to get waive or not.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No chance at all. None. Sorry. Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant,

        My friend got PIC4020 as her agent filed fake TR 485 what she should reply to immigration as they have asked her to reply in context to that with in 28 days . Please suggest what all should be there in reply.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dear Pooja
        Not sure if it’s you or your friend in troble but I sopke to one or the other of you this afternoon so it’s sorted.
        Grant Williams

  22. iam holding a student visa, and I have applied for 176 which is at final stage. my question is: since I didn’t need work experience for the student visa and I did not provide any evidence, and then later on a 176 application I have provided evidence of experience, will this two applications come in to a conflict?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear BB
      I can’t see why they should. Provided you’ve answered all the questions honestly on both applications. If you’ve mislead DIAC in a previous application eg. said you’d never worked and now say you have they may well find that annoying and ask you to explain yourself.
      Greant Williams

  23. Hi Grant,

    My name is pooja, i have a query as my agent has filed fake TR 485 visa and now immigration charged me with PIC4020 and i got 28 days to reply what all should i write in that email to explain that i was unaware that he is filing fake TR

  24. hey Grant
    thanks for reply
    what wil be the compelling and compassionate reason for waiver of pic 4020.
    what kind of circumstances should be for waiver.

  25. Hi My name is mohammed i have same query as my agent has filed fake TR 485 visa and now immigration charged me with PIC4020 and i got 28 days to reply what all should i write in that email to explain that i was unaware that he is filing fake TRA no in my file he said to me that u apply TR meanwhile u can submit ur ilets and TRA now the agent office has close and everyone of my freinds are saying he runaway in my knowledge they are plenty of people who hav applied TR like this because he give us assurance that u can submit related documents later please help me out




    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear mohammed
      Are you really saying that you had no idea that your ‘agent’ had filed this application? Are you really trying to convince DIAC that you had no idea that you needed work experience and that you could file an application without any work experience? Did you actually do any work experience? Did you actually do a TRA assessment? This is very difficult for anyone to believe = your agent acted alone. DIAC will take the correct legal position that it is your responsibility to ensure that an application that goes in under your signature is bona fide. To try to blame the ‘agent’ will not solve the problem at this point I’m afraid. The last thing you want to do is lie to DIAC now (again). Realkly you need to get someone reliable and honest to look at your complete paperwork and give you an opinion on what to do. If you don’t tell them the complete truth you really cannot expect to habe any chance of solving this problem.
      Grant Williams

    • hi , mohamad , this is robin . i have same case like u. give me ur number or email . may i help u with this

  26. Hi grant,
    I discovered your blog by accident by researching some information on the net and I was surprised to see that a lot of people had pretty much the same issues as me so let me explain maybe you can be of some kind of help..
    I have been in Australia for 6yrs and a bit and I came here as a student in 2006 and did an advance diploma in hospitality management.
    Launched my PR 885 application in sept 2008 after having all the required documents police check,medical and 7.5 in ielts and work reference from the first restaurant I worked for over here but didn’t use the company’s letterhead..
    So now 4 yrs after submitting my files I finally have a case officer allocated and was hoping to finally get my residency but I have just been issued with a natural justice letter through my authorised agent saying that the contact I wrote down for my 900hrs which was my head chef at the time doesn’t work at that place anymore and that he doesn’t want to acknowledge that I have been working there as well..
    I applied on a volunteer basis and I tried calling him and txt but was in vain I don’t think he will do any thing from that point..
    So I would like to know what are my options from here considering the fact that I have been living here that long and have been in a defacto relationship with an Australian citizen for 2yrs nearly!!

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You’ve got to get creative and prove you actually did the work. If you did do it don’t just roll over. Get Statutory Declarations from other employees, fellow students, friends, any Australian citizen who can stand up for you, customers. Why would this fellow be denying you worked there? Does not make sense to me. What’s in it for him? DIAC will also think this way as so mant students have given them false employment evidence. They ask about it and the employer says it did not happen! Sounds bad doesn’t it. You can appeal to the MRT if refused.
      Partner is another problem – to have any chance of lodging onshore you’d need a long term relationship = 3 years or 2 years with an AC child.
      You need to get some good help.
      What’s your current agent doing about all of this?
      Grant Williams

      • As I read somewhere in your blog it’s either he can’t be bothered or just don’t care considering that I havent seen him since I left that establishment which like I said was 5 yrs ago..the advice I was given by my agent was to keep trying to get in touch with him to know what’s the problem and if it doesn’t work out they will get me to fill in statutory declarations like you said and consider other options if this doesn’t work out as well but it’s all not clear to me because I believe we shld consider those options now not later down the road when things gets worst..

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Yes you’ve got to hit it with everything you’ve got now including ongoing attempts to engage with this person – try to figure out what’s annoying him and do what you can to get him onside. if you don’t it will be a long wait at the MRT. Grant Williams

  27. HI GRANT,

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No idea sorry but I’m seeing lots of people who have been sent 4020 letters. I would assume that they check each application in this way and if they find something they see as false or misleading they send the letter. It can only work this way. So I guess that’s all applications!
      Grant Williams

  28. A large problem is so many clients/agents lodge bogus/dummied up applications to enter the ‘pipeline’ and get a BVA. I think it is difficult for legitimate agents like yourself to comprehend the crap Diac officers have to sift through.

    We also need to do a better job of educating agents to our requirements, decision markers really need to link up and have group info sessions with agents on a regular basis. Not just the EL1’s or higher, who can no longer remember how to grant a visa.

    Often 1000’s of cases are delayed because agents are under investigation themselves….this info can’t be shared with the client.
    Agents grant/refusal rates should be published on the DIAC website.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Dear VPO
      I agree totally. Not a day goes by that I don’t see applications that should never have been lodged or that have been lodged with no prospect of success just to buy time. My position with all prospective clients is that I always decline to make an application unless I’m convinced it has a pathway to success. This goes for both visa and review applications.
      Years ago there were sessions between agents and and case officers. They were great and very productive.
      I always make a point of reporting all cases of fraud I can substantiate but really there are far too many agents and far too many who simply ignore their Code of Conduct obligations. I’m often critical of policy positions and many of the political motives that drive Immigration but over all the years I’ve been at this role since 1997 I’ve only ever found the working relationship with DIAC staff to be friendly and cooperative. I’m sure we all have our moments and frustrations and not everything goes smoothly and it must be difficult for DIAC officers to trust some agents. I doubt success rates will ever be published but I’m confident DIAC officers are aware of the agents who play the system.
      I’m not sure how we weed out all these essentially bogus applications and the agents who deal in them. It would be great to have a system that was allowed to function and in which genuine applicants could be processed quickly – but I guess that few systems are ideal and ther will always be people who look to exploit the system.
      Thanks for the comment.
      Grant Williams

  29. Hi grant,
    if 886 file is refused with pic 4020 can he apply any other visa on sure/off sure ?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You can apply but I’d say the application will be refused.
      Grant Williams

      • funnypunjabi

        Hi grant,
        what is compelling circumstance..if employer say that i need this person only (with solid region ) to work for me . is this comes under compelling circumstance?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Grant Williams

      • funnypunjabi

        on 24th of april 2012 federal court order that pic 4020 will not apply on the file (for 900 hours experience ) who have assessed TRA before 2009 is this true?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Are you saying that this was your case at the Federal Court?
        Grant Williams

      • funnypunjabi

        what is compelling circumstance..if file refused with pic 4020 but employer have solid region will that file come under compelling?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Grant Williams

  30. Hi Grant,

    Suppose I am on a student visa and halfway through my course I get an employer sponsorship for a 457. What happens then? Do I cancel my student visa if I don’t wish to continue my course, and are there any implications for that?


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If you get a 457 visa which is possible the grant of the 457 replaces the student visa – you can only have one substantive visa. Grant Williams

    • Hello sir, i apllied 885 visa 2012 and now my file is open.immi officer send me email that your ielts online verification have different pic but which one i provide to them this test report with my pic,he also making pi 4020,pls give me suggestion what i have to do.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        All IELTS reports have your picture on it. If the one you sent does not have your picture you have a major problem.
        Are you saying that thius was not your IELTS report you sent?

  31. sandhunishan

    plz can u discribe it . is it any good news for some pic4020

    Trades Recognition Australia TRA not valid Federal Magistrate

    Skills Assessment for Australian Migration – Trades Recognition Australia (TRA) Skills

    Written by Administrator

    Tuesday, 24 April 2012 20:04

    Federal Magistrate Driver has just handed down a decision in the matter of SINGH in the FMC in Sydney.

    This is a very important case which finds that TRA was not validly appointed (ie, not validly authorised to do skills assessments- TRA is responsible for number of trade occupations skills assessments including hairdressers, cooks, motor mechanics, etc) as at 28 September 2009 and that the subsequent application for a visa subclass 485 made on 7 July 2009 and subsequently on an appeal to the MRT were not infected by PIC 4020 considerations because the TRA was not validly appointed at the relevant time. Accordingly, the alleged false statements to the TRA concerning the applicant’s work experience were not capable of grounding conduct said to enliven PIC 4020 considerations.

    This case was handled by our colleague in the profession Christopher Levingston

    For consultations contact Dinesh Weerakkody LLB; PDLP
    Barrister & Solicitor –

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Potentially it may affect some but you can bet that this decision will go to appeal. I’m not a lawyer and really if you want advice on this you should contact a lawyer. Grant Williams

  32. Hi Grant, I have completed my 2year studies in Australia which is as follows

    1St yr completed Diploma in Business administration(52 weeks) at Strathfield college in Sydney.

    2nd yr completed certificate IV in Marketing (24 weeks) and diploma in Marketing (27 weeks) at Kingston international college in Perth.

    My question is can this 2yr study would be eligible for applying 485 GSM visa ?

    As I have already passed skills assessment as retail pharmacist and ielts 6 in each band can I apply 485 GSM visa with this 2 year study mentioned above please suggest me …

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The problem you have is fisrt showing that Business Admin and Marketing are closely related studies. Generally yes but DIAC may well say no. Next if you are using Retail Pharmacist as your skills assessment you’ve then got to realte that to your studies which is even harder. 3 different areas that must all be closely realted. You can try but I would not be confident.
      Grant Williams

  33. Hi Grant
    My name in Gagan and I got refusal for my visa and pic 4020 is applicable on me and I have applied MRT.I just want to know in this case do I can apply for any other onsure or Ofsure visa or not.
    Thank you

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If you win at the MRT yes. Otherwise no you have a 3 year ban for the 4020.
      Grant Williams

  34. amitabh bachan

    hi Grant
    can u plz elaborate this judgement by FMC
    TRA was not validly appointed (ie, not validly authorised to do skills assessments- TRA is responsible for number of trade occupations skills assessments including hairdressers, cooks, motor mechanics, etc) as at 28 September 2009 and that the subsequent application for a visa subclass 485 made on 7 July 2009 and subsequently on an appeal to the MRT were not infected by PIC 4020 considerations because the TRA was not validly appointed at the relevant time. Accordingly, the alleged false statements to the TRA concerning the applicant’s work experience were not capable of grounding conduct said to enliven PIC 4020 considerations.
    thank you

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No I’m a Registered Migration Agent not a lawyer. If you want legal advice find a lawyer. I’m not permitted to give leagl advice.
      Grant Williams

  35. deision on pic 4020 from federal court . plz copy this link ( Singh v Minister for Immigration & Anor [2012] FMCA 145 ) and open federal court deisions site .
    may be it will be helpfull for u too .

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      CAUTION! CAUTION! CAUTION! I’m leaving these posts on the Blog but I fear the author who is only trying to help (sandhunishan) is not legally qualified in Australia. My friend you are giving legal advice here and unless you’re qualified to do so …that’s not legal! I’m making no comment about the content of what you have posted other than to say if anyone is considering this pathway they MUST obtain competent legal advice. Form a lawyer.

      Grant Williams

      • We are not appealing the decision, but we are not applying the precident. We are continuing to refuse tra related 4020’s. The only difference may be we will now choose to refuse under more than one criteria. It will be interesting to see what view the MRT takes. If certain agents on Little Collins Street believe Diac will start granting GSM applications to clients without a TRA, they are dreaming.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Hi VPO There is a lot of chatter about this 4020 TRA decision. Obviously our friend here is convinced it will have impact. As you may have seen from a few of my comments I’m leaving it to the lawyers – not my area as I’m a humble RMA. I however agree that the idea that applicants will get visas without skills assesment seems less than likely – well imposible. Grant Williams

      • sandhunishan

        VPO ….
        let what happen next . i dnt know who r u . but law is law . may be u know better then me . they r not agents they r lawyers and solicitars .
        i dnt know what happen on end . god knows . thnx for ur comment .
        god bless u u and all universe .

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Really I think you’d be well advised to be cautious and not to place too much hope that this court decision will be your saviour. DIAC may well simply legislate to correct this deficiency rather than appeal the decision and it’s not unknown for such legislation to be retrospective. It is a technicality as far as I can see. Grant Williams

  36. Hi Grant,

    I have got my 485 visa. The only thing I am waiting is graduate from Professional Year (22nd June) and complete the skill assessment.

    I am wondering could I apply 885 now, like uploading all other required documents and just leaving the skill assessment with a assessment application information.



    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      As you have the 485 I do not see how you can still be waiting to complete your skills assessment?
      If it’s only the prof Year points yes you can apply now but you must have the pProf Year finished when they come to make a decision on the application or you will failthe points test.
      Grant Williams

      • Hi Grant

        I didn’t complete skill assessment, because getting the 485 only need four 6s in IELTS. As, I think, I need a full assessment for the 885, they requires four 7s in academic or four 7s in general with SIMPA. So I am the latter case. I have to wait until my Prof Year finished, then CA will pass the test. Am I right?

        Or I can, actually, submit my application of 885, as long as I got the full assessment before their decision made too?

        Best regards



    TRA was not properly approved and specified as the relevant assessing authority prior to 1 October 2011.
    This means, for anyone who has received an unsuccessful decision from the MRT prior to 1 October 2011 for reason of PIC 4020 or not having a successful skills assessment in general, these decision are likely to be affected by jurisdictional error. Accordingly, these applicants, if still in Australia, may wish to consider making a special leave to the court.
    source : d.g

  38. HI Grant
    i had applied tr in july 8th 2011 after completed 2 yrs BPA with all certificate and ielts and now I am about to finished professional year on 1st week of June 2012. As I saw allocation dates it is already up to july 25th 2011. I haven’t heard anything from DICA till now.
    Is it because of pic 4020 that i hasn’t got tr in right time??

  39. Hello Grant,
    I am here on student visa and next month my student visa going to be expired. i have done commercial cookery and business management and after that i nearly finished my advanced diploma of management. when i was in india i have done 3 year electronics and communication diploma in 1999 to 2002. in year 2000 to 2002 i started part time work at reputed company and after that 2003 to 2008 i started work over there at ful time basis. after that 2004 to 2005 i have done apprentship in punjab state electricity board full time and again i started work at same company from 2005 to 2008. in melbourne last year in June 2011 i applied onshore ENS 856 application after that they conduct phone interview in India and my old employer clearly said i am in a great hurry and today no one in the office and i am just leaving now and you asking about 4 year old employee record, i don’t remember too much i have to see record but case officer said just tell me what you remember. now i received a letter pic 4020. he said your employer said you work over there 2002 to 2008, when you said i took some break for education purpose and your employer said i hire you on the basis of your qualification whereas you started work over there 2000 part time basis and that time you don’t have qualification, and he said when you lodge the application you didn’t mention part time work where as i checked photo copy of my 47es form they clearly stated part time work.
    now i send a one copy of my statement, one copy of my old employer statement. my employer said i clearly said when he started work with this company he start the panal manufacturing team and after that getting the experience he moved to designing and servicing team and i didn’t said when he join this company he is fully trained, it doesn’t mean he is fully qualified, yes he has qualification with electronics.
    now my question is if he refuge my application under 4020 then what else i have option only MRT or something else? Is there any chance to win?
    my is not included my ENS application and she is only included my student visa because she come australia on september.
    If they refuge my visa then i can extend my student visa or not??
    if i appeal through MRT my wife can get a bridging visa because she is not included with ENS application.
    i already done cookery, business management and advance diploma of management and now i can get any other diploma or i can get admission in degree because i heard that if you already done 2 diploma you cant get another and only have a option degree. Is it true?
    Please give me some advise, i’ll be very thankful to you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If DIAC refuse your application the ONLY option you have is the MRT. If you lose at the MRT you will have a 3 year ban on any other application because it is a 4020 refusal. No your wife cannot get a Bv a) as you are likely to be at the MRT and b) for some reason you left her off your application.
      No you cannot apply for another student visa S48 onshore refusal ban. You really need to put a great deal of effort into winning at the MRT.
      Grant Williams

  40. Hello Grant,
    If DIAC refuse my application my wife can get a student visa or not?
    my wife didn’t sit in the IELTS, she can get admission in ELICOS and leading to diploma or degree??
    if i get BV visa on MRT then my wife has to go back to India?
    if she live without visa over here and what will happen? after that it will effect on my MRT decision??
    please give me some advise, i’ll greatly thankful to you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If you are honest and tell DIAC about your situation I doubt they will view your wife as a genuine temporary entrant or genuine student. Your wife cannot get a BV for your ENS as she was not an applicant and not onshore at time of application. If she stays unlawfully it never helps.
      Grant Williams

  41. Hello Grant,
    sorry for that, i need your openion.
    next month my student visa going to be expired and i know if i go for MRT then, i will get a BV and but my wife doesn’t hold any other visa. My question is, if my wife stay unlawfully over here and afterthat DIAC will ask me where is your wife and why she live over here without visa. and 2nd question is, it will also bad effect on my MRT decision, if my wife stay here unlawfully?? because my wife can’t live without me.
    I will really thankful to you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You wife staying unlawfully is really a separate matter. You will be before the MRT not DIAC. If they find your wife and remember they must know where you live as the you must tell the MRT and MRT/DIAC share files then they may detain her and then she will be deported and never be able to return. NOT a good idea. Grant Williams

  42. Dear Grant,
    You said if i get refugal under PIC4020 i cant renew my another student visa s48 refugal ban.
    what is the mean of s48??
    thanks very much.

    • Dear grant,
      If u pls so kind can u please explain me why I can’t extend my student visa if I got a refusal under pic 4020. Or if I apply now for another student visa and after that I got a refusal under 4020 then they will cancel my remaining student visa as well.
      You said if i get refugal under PIC4020 i cant renew my another student visa s48 refugal ban.
      what is the mean of s48??
      thanks very much.

      • Dear grant,
        Please sir, it humble request to you, pls give me advise. I am so confused and much scared about future.
        If u pls so kind can u please explain me why I can’t extend my student visa if I got a refusal under pic 4020. Or if I apply now for another student visa and after that I got a refusal under 4020 then they will cancel my remaining student visa as well.
        You said if i get refugal under PIC4020 i cant renew my another student visa s48 refugal ban.
        what is the mean of s48??
        thanks very much.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        s48 is a section of the Migration Act that prevents an applicant who has been refused a visa application onshore from lodging a further application while they remain in Australia. A 4020 visa application refusal comes with a 3 year ban on all further visa applications Grant Williams

  43. Hi Grant

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The MRT does not establish precednets in the same way a court does in common law. Each case is individual and it will be up to you to convince DIAC.
      To be honest I’d say no but it may come down to the quality of your submission.
      Grant Williams

  44. Dear Grant,
    Thanks so much for all information provided.
    I have some inquiries about my situation.
    I finished commercial cookery in Melbourne June 2011. And then I applied for TRA. I got it. I applied for TR, It will be coming soon next month, DIAC requested me to do Medical exam, I posted result to them. Now I want to apply for another visa when I hold 485 TR. I wonder between 457 and 856 visa.
    I start work for my employer from last September 2011 until now as full time position, my wage is under 49,330 AuD.

    Now, my employer agree to sponsor for me, to pay me as requirement 49,330 aud and super.
    So two questions I would love to ask you.
    – which visa should I apply 457 or 856? I want to get PR ASAP.
    – if I apply for visa 856, when will my employer should lodge their application? Do u need to finish one year working for my employer before I can apply for 856?
    Thanks so much Grant

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I’d say your only option is a 457 as I cannot see how you can meet the criteria for an ENS 856 as you do not have 3 years post qualification work experience.
      Grant Williams

      • Dear Grant,

        Thanks so much for your replying. By the way, I have one more question. I studied about visa 457, so it is one kind of working visa. I might have four years to stay in Australia if it is approved. In good circumstance, after two years or three years working for my employer under visa 457, do I have any chance to apply for visa 856? Do i need to apply for 856 aftet that? Or i can directly apply for PR? How can I apply for PR in this situation? Thanks so much.
        Best regard,

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        After 2 years ona 457 you can apply for Employer Nomination 856 if your employer Nominates you and gets Nomination approval Grant Williams

  45. hi grant,
    for rsms visa what is english (ielts) requirement
    4.5 each or 4.5 overall.

  46. Hi grant,
    what is the ielts requirement for rsms visa
    4.5 cach or 4.5 overall

  47. Hi Grant,
    my visa was refused and i am on MRT can i apply rsms visa onsure?
    if not then offsure?
    to apply off sure application is i need to leave the country or can i apply offsure without leaving australia?

  48. Respected Sir , how r u ? I am in very big problem . I did apply for student visa. My funds are bogas ( someone did fraud with me ) now I have genuine funds. Pls give me suggestion what I should do ? My visa officer ask me about this and new funds . Otherwise he will refuse my application and he will put on me pic4020. So pls tell me what I should do ? Thank you very much .

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Ram I’d say you’ve got a big problem unless you can somehow expalin the bogus funds docs. Withdrawing the application does not undo the provision of false documents. Won’t work. 457 has the same 4020 provision and the info is on your file. Plus you cannot apply onshore. If you apply offshore the 4020 will be the issue and you’ll get refused.
      Grant Williams

      • Than what I should do ? Pls give me s advise . Thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Ram If you have a 4020 refusal you will face a minimum 3 year application ban. I cannot change that. Sorry. Grant Williams

      • Thanks for help . U r great mate . First my visa officer give me 2 week time for reply why u show bogas fund . And show new funds . Then he will decide about my visa . Pls tell me something I wanna wave off pic career will be end .

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Not sure what you’re asking me here?

      • Respected Sir , i am facing pic 4020. If I finished my study 100percent during MRT than someone told me you can win . No funds requirement if ur study is finished . Pls give me your views . Thanks for help . And I hope your are the person who solve this problem .

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Ram I cannot solve a problem if I don’t have the details. I have no idea from what you’ve told me. Sounds like you need to come and show me the paperwork if you’re in Sydney. If not find someone reliable and ethical and get a consultation. Grant Williams

  49. Can we get sponsorship in MRT on puc4020.

  50. hi grant.
    i applied 485 visa dec 2009 and got it feb 2011. any way my first cousin she is Australian citizen, can i apply 487 visa to follow transitional arrangement. Before feb 8 2010 the eligibility for ielts is overall 6, so do i need overall 6 or individual 6 band in each component to apply 487 visa to follow transitional arrangement. thanks

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes you are a transitional applicat for 485 tp GSM and you’ve answered your own question about the IELTS it seems.
      Grant Williams

      • thanks grant for your prompt reply. actually i have ielts overall 6 band. i want to apply for 487 first cousin will sponsor me . she is Australian citizen. after july 2011 the ielts requirement for 487 visa is 6 in each component. as i am transitional applicant. can i apply 487 visa with overall 6 in ielts.. the ielts requirement for 487 visa was overall 6 when i applied for 485 visa on dec 2009. can u pls give me solution. thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Erick Asking the same question 3 times will not make me answer the question any faster! It is not a simple question and requires me to look up all the old migration law that applied at the times you quote. This will take about 30 minutes of my time. When you want something for free it’s generally not a great idea to harass the person whose help you are requesting. Be patient and I’ll look it up when I get the time. Grant Williams

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Erick Having read all the relevant legislation I do not think your transitional status applies to this second application for TR from your 485 visa. In other words iot is my view that you will require Competent English (6 in each band) to make this application. Grant Williams

  51. hi grant. actually i have ielts overall 6 band. i want to apply for 487 first cousin will sponsor me . she is Australian citizen. after july 2011 the ielts requirement for 487 visa is 6 in each component. as i am transitional applicant. can i apply 487 visa with overall 6 in ielts.. the ielts requirement for 487 visa was overall 6 when i applied for 485 visa on dec 2009. can u pls give me solution. thanks

  52. Hi grant, I got pic4020 from diac they said they interviewed the my boss and he said I signed the letters n students worked here but I couldn’t read the letters I just signed n I culdn’t kept any student records as he said that none of student is skilled enough that’s why I lost my most of clients, now he sold out the business what would I do plz reply me n let me know any chance in mrt because my experience was taken in 2008 it is 4 yrs long time from where I can find the evidence but is true I worked there, as I applied 885 on ielts 7 in each base. Is it possible after refusal I can apply off shore spouse visa. Plz reply me as soon as possible

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Asking three times is just annoying and a waste of my time. If you want free advice at least have the grace to be a little patient!
      Sounds to me as if your ex employer has comprehensively sunk your case. It will be very difficult to prove that he is lying as the sataement sounds very definite.
      PIC 4020 does not currently apply to Partner applications. Offshore or onshore.
      Grant Williams

    • Sorry for asking three times I donot meant to be like that. Thanx for your advice.

  53. Thnx grant but it is possible after having refusal on bases of pic4020 I can still apply n got spouse visa off shore plz reply me

  54. Thnx grant, but is it possible after getting refusal on bases of pic 4020 I can still apply spouse visa off shore. As I am on bridging a right now plz advice me

  55. Hi grant, is it true that tra was not valid as it come up in the case of mr Singh so pic 4020 is not applicable to visa applications which tra has been assessed before sep 2009 thnx.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      M If you want to advice about a court decision you need to ask a lawyer I’m only a registered migration agent. This case does have implications for some visa applicants but I’m not prepated to comment on it at this time Grant Williams

  56. Hi grant I found my landlord sister who used to come and get service from me from that salon which is under question moreover I found a customer as well who got some hair services from me during that time. Do you think this would help me in pic4020

  57. Thnx a lot for your reply

    • Hi grant some one told me either you give any evidence now your case officer is bound to give you refusal otherwise she will loose her job. But if you have evidence you can win in mrt. Is it true that even giving her more evidence still I will get refusal… Plz reply me.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        M Sounds like you are listening to people who have less than no idea what they are talking about. Be sensible. If DIAC ask for evidence and you can provide it do so. If they are satisfied you will be OK if not they will refuse the application and you will have to then try to convince the MRT of the truth of your situation. You cannot assume that just because you give them evidence they will be convinced nor can you assume that giving the evidence is a waste of time. What you can be absolutely sure about is that if you do not respond and give them additional evidence they WILL refuse the application. That’;s a certainty. Grant Williams

      • Thank you so much for your instant reply.

  58. Hi grant in my case as investigation team interviewed my employer he admitts that students used to come to work he didn’t write the letters but signed it without reading it and he couldn’t kept any records so he cannot verify 900 hrs and moreover he culnot recognized anyone pic as it was long time nearly three years. Now I have my landlord sis who comes there and one more customer who got services from me I got there sec dec also I found some notes which I used whilevworking unsupervised.I contact my employer he refused to talk to me as he said he is no more in business so cannot verify any thing. What do you think how many chances in my case to get approval. Because I really worked there. Plz advice me.

  59. Thnx 4 ur reply I vl let u knw the outcome of application

  60. hi grant by going through the post i found most of the people have the same problem as mine in my case they just put me on pic 4020 and havent got any decesion till now as i have done my 900 hrs as an volunteer ,from my side i have submitted all the requirement document to the immigration .at the moment i m on bridging visa and now the place where i m working they are happy to spinsored me .so i m planning to do rsms and i have already put my name on nomination .so can u tell me is that ok to apply for rsms while i havent got any decesion from immigration regarding pic 4020 .can you please reply me and give me some idea that what i can do.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Not sure what you mean by “they just put me on pic 4020” However if DIAC have not yest made a decision on your case then then there is no 4020 bar as yet. So you can apply. However if they do refuse on 4020 it will still affect the application down the track.
      Grant Williams

  61. Hi Grant,
    thanks for ur previous advise, Today i want to ask you about sc457 visa turned in to PR.
    I am now on sc457 visa, it will be one yr in this Oct. but i am working with the same employer from last 4.5yrs So i want to know that can i apply for Permanent Residency when my 1yr will be completed(in OCT) or i have to still wait for 2yrs under sc 457 visa.

    Plz give me your advice.

  62. hi grant
    thank you very much for ur reply what i mean to say is that they send me a letter saying that I will be sending through a Natural Justice 4020 as I am not satisfied with the evidence provided before me and due to
    the outcome of investigations carried out by DIAC officers. this is what they said to me but havent got any decesion yet from diac and i have already applied for my rsms nomination so what i mean is that if i applied rsms they does it going to effect me again or not can you let me know please thank you

    can u give any other advice that i can do on this case which can help me to solve my problem thakyou

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sam Yes it will affect all applications. Once they send you the letter you’ve got to respond. You have one computer file at DIAC so any case officer opening any application will see this 4020 flag on the file. Grant Williams

  63. hi grant thanks for ur reply is there any other way that i can go through can u pls advice me to solve my problem. can u pls give me some advice to get out of this trouble ..thankyou

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sam There are no magic solutions to this. First you’ve got to find out what DIAC do but it does not sound promising then when that is certain you will only really have the option to go to the MRT and try to prove your side of the situation. However the 4020 thing will not just go away. If anyone tells you there is a solution beware they are probably trying to get your money. Grant Williams

  64. Calvin jeetendra

    Hi sir will u be so kind to assist me on the following.i am from south africa .i am a skill worker 25 years exp in printing ind.i wrote my ielits test overall band score of 4.5 please tell me the average is 4.5.
    I am 43 years of age can i get a chance to obtain a visa.i have a spönsor please help me

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes that is the average.
      Cannot tell from the info here. You need to retain a good Migration Agent and have them assess your skills, qualifications and work experience and also assess the sponsor to see if the company can meet Immigration requirements.
      Grant Williams

      • Hello Sir, if u pls so kind can u pls advise that I have applied 856 ENS application and I am doing advance diploma of management. My visa expire on 5 th of July. So my question is I have remaining 4000$ to pay for college fees if I quit to go college and didn’t pay anything to college then it will effect on my ENS application because after my visa expire I can get a bridging visa. Or I have to must continue my college. If college report me to immigration department that this guy is not coming to college then what will happen. Because I already applied ENS application and after 5 th July I will get a bridging visa. Pls sir it’s my humble request to you give me some advise I am very thankful to you. Thanks a lot

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Your college cannot get your student visa cancelled once it has expired. You will go onto the BV. Just tell them that you no longer have a Student visa. They may complain but there is nothing they can do to you.
        Grant Williams

  65. hi there
    i have applied for 885 in oct 2010.
    when do u think i will be contacted by case officer?
    and i have already provided my AFP clearance at the time of lodgement. do u think i will have to provide new one?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I’m constantly asked to say when DIAC will contact you how can I possibly know that? I’m not them and I have not seen the content of your application. Don’t know sorry.
      As to the AFP yes.
      Grant Williams

  66. Dear Grant
    I have lodged MRT and pic 4020 applicable on me.I am wondering that Do I am eligible for de facto visa or not because I am been leaving with my gIrlfriend From last one and half years and she is going to apply RSMS.
    I look forward to hear from you.
    Thank you

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You cannot apply onshore and if you aply offshore as a dependant the 4020 will be raised as an issue if you apply as a dependant on someone elses visa.
      Grant Williams

      • Dear Grant
        As you said 4020 will be raised a issue if I
        Apply offshore as I dependent.
        So will she get in trouble because of me or not?
        Is there any chances that I can get visa?
        Thank you sir,

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Garry It will not affect her getting the visa but I doubt you will. However you can try and you may be able to get DIAC to give it to you. I’m sure they will ask you to justify why they should given the circumstances. Grant Williams

      • Hallo Grant,
        My name is Kavita and i have done hospitality management and cookery.
        I am wondering that can i apply RSMS from 7eleven as a Retail offer administrator with my these qualification or not?
        Thank you

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Maybe. It’s not that simple. I’d need to see all your qualifications and expereince and the details of the job description. However I don’t think just working ain a 7eleven will work.
        Grant Williams

  67. hello grant
    my visa has been rejected under pic 4020 in dec 2012. and i have applied mrt in dec 2012. my mrt has been open. at that time i supplied stat. dec from employer and from clients and snaps. but still got rejection. now my hearing is on august 14, 2012 can u tell me please, what other documents i can show them in mrt. if i will lose in mrt thn will they give me time to do finish some work in australia.

  68. hello grant
    i am in trouble. i lose my case in mrt and they give me 28 days. but i am in debt. i have to pay some bank loans , when i will depart from australia they will ask about my loan or not. because i have nthing to pay right now. it will be a problem or nt




    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If all that you are saying is correct yes. If you have given DIAC false or misleading information about employment that can be a problem. Is that why you are asking?
      Grant Williams

  70. Hello Grant

    No i submitted all the documents real and genuine. but my concern is, as you aware that in Student VISA you are not allowed to work more than 20 hours thats why I worked full year 20 hours on books after completing my certificate III in hairdressing and I have payslips, ATO assessment, super statement and group certificate to prove it. My question that the 1 year paid experience that I have shown is valid if I have worked 20 hrs per week only during that year? and during this year I finished my certificate IV and diploma.

    waiting for your response.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Lucy the definition of work for GSM is 20 hours per week. If you have 52 weeks of evidence showing that it will be fine. Some weeks could be more but they would need to correspiond to out of session time anyhinh even slightly less cannot be counted. 19 hours will not do. Grant Williams

      • Dear sir,
        I send two email to your personal email I’d if you pls so kind can you please reply to my email I’d because I am scared and that one is confidential. I am very very thankful to you. Thanks alot

  71. Dear Grant thanks for your response. I have 55 weeks of evidence but out of these 55 weeks 2 weeks were just 11 hours, I think I will still be fine.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You will be fine.


    • Dear sir, now my BV start and my visa sub class 573, so my award course is diploma and advance diploma of management or degree???
      Because after my advance diploma finish few days after my visa also expire      , so i need to only clear my remaining unit of diploma and advance diploma or I have to also get admission in degree and extend my student visa???
      I am very thankful to you sir. 

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Sonu I’m completely confused by all your emails. You either need to come and see me face to face or figure this out for yourself. I cannot keep trying to answer your questions as I have to dig back and find all the other emails. I don’t have the time to do this. GW

      • Ok thank you very much sir, I arrange to come to Sydney next week and I will see you and show you what I given to immigration department. Once agian thanks for your cooperation.

  72. Hello grant can you please advice me
    I applied for student visa extension which go refused becoz i didnot send the financial i went to Mrt and some of information(paper about finance) i provided to Mrt was fraudulent.i didnt know that my faher did that but i knoe responsible.Mrt found out and ask me to attend the interview to comment on that papers but i withdraw my Mrt application next week and flew back to my country.(may2012)
    I just applied for 457 visa on june 2012 my nomination has been approved but visa taking long time
    So my question is can they reject my application on 4020 or what option do i have if the do?can my employer say that he desprately nedd if they reject it?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes they can if they discover and notice what you sent to the MRT which is likely. Might not happen as the system can be inefficient. Keep your fingers crossed. It is possible to get around a 4020 in some compelling circumstances but you’d need to be very special and your employer would need to be very convincing.

  73. Dear sir, my husband applied 856 ENS application and I am not included in the ENS application and he continue his study as well and I come to Australia after his ENS lodgement on his spouse dependent but we haven’t get decision yet and his student visa going to expire. My question is under the new rules effective from 1st July I can added to his ENS application or not???
    I saw on the immigration site that is written like that …..Only eligible dependent applicants can be added to existing applications that were lodged on or before 30 June 2012.
    I am confused can you please give me some advise as your most convenient. I really thankful to you sir.

  74. Dear sir, my husband applied 856 ENS application and I am not included in the ENS application and he continue his study as well and I come to Australia after his ENS lodgement on his spouse dependent but we haven’t get decision yet and his student visa going to expire. My question is under the new rules effective from 1st July I can added to his ENS application or not???
    I saw on the immigration site that is written like that …..Only eligible dependent applicants can be added to existing applications that were lodged on or before 30 June 2012.
    I am confused can you please give me some advise as your most convenient. I really thankful to you sir.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      He applied under the old rules so the new rules don’t apply to his application.
      Why have you not been included in the ENS if you are his dependant on the student visa. This seems very odd. Is there some explanation? I do not understand why anyone would create this sort of problem for themselves.

  75. krutika mehta

    Hi there,
    My name is krutika and i lounged my 4in may 2011 on the basis of my old TRA and now immi ask me to do PIC 4020 for submiting the bogus document, what should i do futher? Can i do the new TRA with my voluntary hours and ielts each in six band or i have to withdraw my file.
    I dont really understand about the PIC 4020.
    I look forward to hear from your side.

    • krutika mehta

      Please read 485 instead of 4.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      What bogus document did you provide to Immigration?
      I need more information to be ale to make any suggestions.

      • krutika mehta

        Thank you sir for your prompt reply,i didn’t submit any bogus documents but DIAC is trying to prove that with the support of my old experience letter.they visited my previous emploer in india and askfor any proof like attendance record, client record etc but they didnt find my name or any record of my experience.
        So, basicaly the document is my past experience in hairdressing in my country.i am also worried about one more thing that i recently applied for 457 visa in hairdressing so, does this PCI 4020 will affect my new lounged 457 visa??
        Once again thank you so much.

  76. Dear Sir,
    Because when my husband lodge the application that time I was in offshore and and I got my student dependent visa later, so my question is now I can include his application or not? Or I can I apply when he grant the visa ??
    Thanks for your reply. I am really thankful to you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You could have been included when he lodged the application. Onshore offshore made no difference for a secondary applicant. However you need to both go to DAC and explain your mistake and ask to be allowed to be included on the application and see what they say. GW

      • Thank you very much sir giving us much valuable advice. Really sir, I didn’t seen any person in the world like you who giving free advice to helpless person I am really thankful you.

  77. Hi,

    I wonder if you can give me some general information. I wrote some time ago about having had a working holiday visa (2nd year) cancelled for providing false information, regretfully I did not complete my regional work. I believe I would be subject to an effective 3 year ban under PIC4013 but I notice that under the new employer nominated scheme as a permanent visa that only PIC4020 but not PIC 4013 seems to apply.

    Does this mean I would be able to apply for ENS Direct Entry scheme 1 year after my whv was cancelled subject to having the correct skills and qualifications to be asessed as a hotel/motel manager under the new CSOL. (PIC 4020 is only an exclusion from being granted a visa for 12 months, not 3 years)

    Most grateful for any assistance!

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      AJ Hard to say. These type of things have a habit of only becoming problems after an application is lodged. I’d ask Immigration about your situation stressing that you don’t want to waste your money or their time if all that is going to happen is a refusal. GW

  78. hello grant
    my name is kiran. my isa has been refused under pic 4020. at that time i supplied declaration from employer, from clients and snaps and time sheet to immigration. now my case in mrt has been opened. can you tell me what other evidence i can give to mrt. can my employer directly contact to mrt or provider any documents to mrt. i really thankfull to you for this help

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes your employer can give the MRT a Commonwealth Statutory Declaration and if willing can come to your hearing and give evidence. GW

  79. hello grant
    my name is simran . our 485 visa has been refused under pic 4020. i am doing job as an accountant and also doing CPA. my employer also want to sponsor me . not my husband. i want to apply any visa in australia excluding my husband. i want to stay in australia. can u guide me what i can do?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      How do you now expect to get around the 4020 ban? This ban applies to any sponsored visa application. Just ditching your husband will not get rid of the 4020 problem.
      It’s not that simple.

      • Respected Sir, how r u ? I did apply for student visa . My funds were not genuine . Now I got pic4020. I will apply for MRT now. So can you pls tell me if I will finish my whole study during MRT than I can win cuz Someone told me if anyone finish his 80 percent course during MRT than u have no need funds . And second thing I can get sponsorship or not. Thanks for help .

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Ram. No this is just a silly story. You cannot win at the MRT as you admit you have provided bogus docs and completeing study up to any % will not change that. As far as any sponsorship goes you will have a 3 year application ban and I would think your prospects after that would not be good either because of this fraud. You really can’t expect DIAC to just ignore this type of behaviour can you? GW

      • Respected Sir, thanks for reply . How I can solve this problem Sir. Thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Ram Not every problem has a solution and I think you have created this one and you are stuck with it. GW

      • hey grant

        i want to apply for waiver for my application. how i can apply. can i get wavier if my employer will apply to immigration for waiver

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Simran You can ask but I seriously doubt that it will be successful. It’s not that easy. GW

  80. hello
    i recently on monday 9th july 2012 got a natural justice letter stating that

    “As there is evidence suggesting that you have provided, a bogus document or false or
    misleading information in relation to this visa application, the following applicant may fail to
    satisfy PIC 4020, with the result that this visa application may be refused:

    Independent verification has revealed that the Standard Chartered bank statement
    provided by you for a student visa application is not genuine.”

    I really do not know what this means. i have confirmed with the bank that the statement is genuine and that the funds are available.
    Should i write to my case officer and ask for a clarification on exactly what the problem could be? (before i send the latest bank statement).
    i have to write back and give an explanation by 16/07/2012. before i give my response am i allowed to ask questions so that i may address the problem directly?

    i would love to resolve this at this stage because this is a if i do not report to school by august this year i will lose my partial scholarship which without i would not be able to afford studying in australia. and i really do not want to have a 3 year ban either. Kindly assist.

    desperate student

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      DIAC do independent checks on bank documents. Your one has come up with some problem. Not genuine is fairly clear I would think. What clarification do you want them to make.
      You need to get the bank who issued this statement to independently verify that it is genuine.
      Is it your bank account?
      If not who does it belong to?
      How have you verified it? You say you have confirmed with the bank…What does this mean?
      DIAC often get the same statement provided by multiple applicants.
      What do you think the problem might be?
      did you submit this application personally or was it done for you by someone else?

      • the bank account is not mine but that of a sponsor who has since given me a new bank statement to re-submit to diac but i am reluctant to submit it without knowing what was wrong with the first one he gave me. along with a later that states he is truly my sponsor. i have (using my own ways) been able to verify that the account is real, in my sponsors name and has the amount of money as the statement he gave me so the statement is ok. i have asked if him if he has sponsored another student and he says he has not. so basically i have no idea what diac is talking about when they say “not genuine”….. that is why i ask before i give my official response am i allowed to ask for a clarification so that when i do respond i do not just say “its genuine, please verify again”….. i want to know exactly what it is that they claim is problematic so that i can address that directly.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        lilo Can’t say I’m convinced by how you could verify this “using my own ways” – basically if it’s not your account then you really have no idea what’s true and what is not. If he’s given you another statement I’m immediately suspicious. Why? If the old one was OK? Obvious answer – it was not. Who is this person? A relative? If not a relative what’s his motivation to ‘sponsor’ you? You can ask but they don’t have to tell you. Their method when they know something you don’t is to ask for a comment and see what you say. It’s very hard as you’re not sure what they know and as I just said they don’t have to say and may not even be at liberty to say if it relates specifically to the sponsor as there are privacy laws. GW

    • in July 2012 how did you resolve this,am in similar situation.

  81. Hi grant in may DIAC asked me submit tra documents, medical and fedreal police clearance, I did and in june they send pic 4020 againt tra documents and asked me to comment I didi in June I send them further evidence it is a month now I would not get any response or decision regarding my application what you suggest should I wait or should I ask them that how long it takes the further processing and what you think what can be the reason for no reply yet thnx..

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No point asking them how long it will take they will just say it’s being processed. Really depends what subsequent checks they are making on you documents and comments. GW

  82. Thnx for your reply so it is better for me to wait once again thnx

  83. Hello please i received a mail from DIAC saying my sponsorship bank statement i provided is not genuine and even the signatures proven was not certain which is not true in the sense that my sponsor who is my sister called me saying her bank called her and inform her that DIAC called to verify if she gave her statement to me to add to my application and am ask to make a comment on this and have up to seven days from today so please advise me because am really worried and disturbed about that whole thing because this is my second Application i have made to them to go and school there.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      It seems to me that you need to get your sister to sort this out asap. She can verify this and this should have been done in the application to begin with. She can also verify her signature but I’m not sure whose signature is in question.
      Where are you? Where is your sister?

  84. Thanks alot but i am in Ghana and my sister is out of the country now but will be back within a couple of days.

  85. hello,

    i have been refused an australian visa due to fraudulent bank statement (which i was not aware of as it was provided by a relative). the university however has a campus in america where my admission can be easily transferred (sadly without the scholarship i have in australia) my question is, can i be denied a US student visa because of my history with my denied australian visa. Can US immigration possibly find this out by themselves if i do not declare it? Does australia share visa refusal information with other countries? if so, which countries are they. I was not terribly interested in going to australia but rather in the school but the australian campus was offering scholarships at the time of my application. the university has other campuses in US(my second option)/Italy(would have to learn italian)/Qatar(not too crazy about going to a Muslim country)……

    in addition….. I am married although estranged to an american citizen. would this affect my US visa application please assist.

  86. hey Grant
    simran here

    i got refusal under pic 4020 and applied in mrt. now my hearing on 26 july.
    Before hearing or at the day of hearing will MRT contact to my employer or not.
    if my employer send any documents to MRT,before hearing then is any chance to win or not.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Simran Get the employer to send the documents to the MRT before the hearing. YES GW

      • hi grant
        with reference to my earlier question…….. my main question was “Does australia share visa refusal information with other countries? if so, which countries are they.”


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Qween Yes if they bare asked. GW

  87. hi i got a latter from immi regarding pic 4020 but i got statuary dec group certificate etc my exp 900 hours paid so cud i l be safe

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Maybe but i’d need to see all your paperwork to make an assessment and it depends what they know and are not telling you.

  88. Hi Grant how are you?

    my question is i got a letter from diac stated that the information what i provided in my application is all false and they issue me pic 4020 and ask me to reply in 28 days time frame i already reply to them but waiting for my decision i dont know my application will negetive or positive i just got married back home and my wife she is in back home i cant call her on dependent visa i was thinking to call her on student visa and i want to be her dependent can it possible or else i have to withdraw my application and go back to my country and apply my question is PIC 4020 effects my wife application is this possible.

    Regards Mohammed

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Mohammed This will affect all and any applications you make unless you can resolve the problem. Unless you do you will definitely not be able to either get your wife here or be included on any visa she may be granted. What did you do? GW

  89. Hi grant, sorry for bothering you again. Do you have any idea how long a case officer can take to give decision after asking you to submit medical, polic clearance andvthan comment on pic 4020. Because I heard some cases are waiting for 6 months for decision after comment on pic 4020. Thnx

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      M No idea and you cannot listen to other people talking rubbish. Each case is different and they take however long is required to be resolved. There are no averages in this system. GW

  90. Please have commented on the PIC 4020 they sent me and my sponsor has also send them letters proving her authenticity and genuineness of her bank statement and besides my sponsor said he truly denied knowing me when a call was reach to her by DIAC because of a little misunderstanding i had with her of a project she ask me supervise and i refused because of the timing of my school commencement.
    but those issues has been resolved and she ask me to write them and explain what happen that is why she did that and she will also send them a Sponsorship letter again which she has done it and they can call the bank to verify her Bank statement to its genuineness,
    so please i have done that on Monday and how long will it take to hear from them since my course will be commencing on Monday coming and is it advisable to call them please advise me………………….

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courage My guess is they will refuse the visa especially given this ‘new’ information. Really do you expect them to now believe someone who has just lied directly to them? It’s not going to happen. You will probably have to go to the MRT and hope your ‘sponsor’ can give evidence and convince them that it is all the truth this time around. Wow that’s a really silly thing to have done. GW

  91. hi grant.
    my student visa 572 was refused on 15 june 2011 because of fradulent fund documents. but my fund documents was geniune. i lodge mrt on 28 june its more than one year .please how much more time it will take?DIAC didnt put any thing about PIC4020 in the refusal letter and decision record. they just write only they are refusing my visa because i didnt satisfy regulation 572.223(2)(a)(i).i lodge 119 rsms visa also on 5 june 2012. my question is when they open my MRT and RSMS visa file . diac put me under PIC4020 or not?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The 4020 will come up in relation to the 119 application unless you win at the MRT.
      Curently MRT is taking more than 2 years.

      • hi grant,
        if some get refused to grant 119 ofshore visa . DIAC give chance to apply MRT or review of visa application ?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Sonu No a 119 is an offshore application however as it is sponsored this provides some hope of review. Currently the MRT is taking the view that an application without an approved nomination is not reviewable (onshore and offshore)\GW

      • hi grantt .case officer allocated for my rsms 119 off shore v visa application.on12 April 2011 i got 857 visa refused because my application was lodged without nomination .on 28th Feb i lodge my second student visa application and i granted BV A which come in effect after my first student visa was finishing on 15 march 2011.i dint lodge MRT appeal against 857 visa 15 june 2011 my student visa also refused because of fradulent funds documents .on 28th june i lodge application for MRT against my student visa refusal.then i granted BV A again. i convert BVA TO BV B and depart agent lodge 119 offshore application for me on 5 june 2012 then 8th july i come back to australia on my BV B BEFORE IT EXPIRE.on 6 march 2013 was my hearing in perth after hearing my ask me for year 12 certificate . i submit that next day till now i didn’t get any reply from MRT . but on the hearing my member said he will remit my case to DIAC if he satisfy from the year 12 certificate. rest all other documents was sent by my agent already to MRT my agent call me in the morning and tell me about 119 application that case officer is allocated.
        The case officer has stated the following:

        “From a review of our records it is noted that Mr MAGO is currently on a Bridging Visa B initially granted when he was on a Student Visa when he went offshore to lodge the 119 after an 857 visa application he lodged (RID: 115540778) was refused on 12 April 2011.

        It appears that he was granted the BVB as he had indicated that he was lodging an MRT APPEAL against the 857 refusal decision of 12/4/11 on RID: 115540778. HOWEVER, I cannot find any reference to an MRT appeal being lodged against that decision.

        IF Mr MAGO has not lodged a MRT appeal we will probably administratively cease the BVB and he would have to go offshore whilst the 119 visa application is assessed.”

        pls i need your advice what can happen or what i have to do now.please rply me asap .thanx

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Raj Too complex for a Blog answer and you already have an agent assisting you. I think you will still have a problem with the 4020 refusal with the 119. You have also misled them it seems about the MRT appeal. However if tghe MRT remit your file and you get the Student visa back thius may solve the problem. Can’t say more without looking at all the paperwork. GW

        On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  92. yes u right about that because my visa application was refused and my school is willing to defer my course to January intake and DIAC has asked me to lodge in a different application if i want to and also to state a something like a compelling or compassionate circumstance that is affecting something and all that and how do i write that and what do i do.please you can email me at to brief me more on that in order to lodge in a different application.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courage You need to get some face to face professional advice. You cannot do something this complicated by Blog post or email. If you don’t sort this out it will not end well. GW

  93. I understand but please am currently not in Australia but in Ghana so how do i meet you or someone professional to advise me on this?
    Before lodging in another another application again.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courage that makes it very difficult. Again I say I do not see any real prospect for a successfu; application given the circumstances. GW


  95. hey grant
    i got mrt hearning on 27 aug.for pic 4020. but at that time my case is same as all 12 students on same time. what does it mean. they will listen us all together or one by one

  96. Then what’s option for me I go back home I work very hard to get rsms sponsored as a painter thx for u reply

  97. Hi I had a question.
    I am applying for 476 and in the study completion letter I am exceeding the limit for applying for 476 by 3 weeks (it is 2 years, I completed my courses before 2 years and 3 weeks). The case officer seems to be adamant and says this rule is pretty strict.
    Will the case officer enquire by calling up or emailing if I get a letter from any officer at my university stating a date that helps my case get through. Shouldn’t there be a small window of tolerance allowed. I have spent more than 1000$ already on the process. It’ll be really sad if I get rejected because of this reason.
    What should I do?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      This is the actual MigrationRegualtion…

      The applicant has completed a course:

      (a) in the period of 24 months ending immediately before the day on which the application is made; and

      (b) at an institution specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this paragraph;

      for the award of a degree or higher qualification in a discipline specified in an instrument in writing for this clause.

      So if you are saying it has been 3 weeks and 2 year since you actually completed your course you are not eligible.

      However it says you must have completed the course in the last 2 years before you apply.
      I’m not really sure that you have expressed yourself clearly so I do not know which you mean. However the time limit is strict.

      • Hi Grant,
        I meant that if I could get a letter which says I finished my courses within the 2 year period from any officer/professor at my University, will the case officer inquire by calling/emailing them?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dev DIAC have access to a system that allows them to see student completion dates. If you try ro provide fraudulent documents you will get into serious troble nad no reputable colleg or university will give you a false letter of this type. Yes they check everything. That’s what they do when they process applications. Don’t be silly! GW

      • Hi Grant, just to make my case clearer. The date on which I received the degree (which is the date written on the degree) is well within the 2 year limit. But, the letter of completion is pretty vague. I tried contacting my University and they initially refused to give me a customized degree completion letter (which states the date by which I completed all my degree requirements), but then they agreed and told me that there were many dates possible(say the date on which I was recommended for the degree, the date on which the final results got declared). Unfortunately, these dates are also slightly outside the two year limit.
        Thanks a lot.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Dev The only date that counts is the date you completed the degree when you passed the final course or courses. Every Uni knows this – you need to speak to someone with a higher pay grade. GW

  98. Hello Grant,

    I applied subclass 885 in November 2009. In January 2012, my case officer invited to comment for work experience letter submitted to TRA. In the letter CO alleged that document is fraudulently obtained via Carmine Amarante and added PIC 4020.
    At the time my migration agent replied to CO with some arguments and evidence of my voluntary work.
    On 21st August, CO sent another letter asking to comment. He also sent statement from Amarante taken by AFP.
    Now, I am wondering what are options from now on.
    Also,Can I apply for another visa application (457 or student), If I withdraw my application. Can I apply any other visa from offshore, if my visa get refused.
    When does 3 year ban starts?


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I’d say your options are very limited if you are caught up in this fraud.
      No you cannot withdraw and make another application as you cannot satisfy Schedule 3 of the Migration Regulations for an onshore application having been on a BV for more than 28 days.
      The ban starts from the date of refusal under 4020.

  99. HI Grant,
    Thanks for your quick reply. If I withdraw and go back to home country. Can I apply offshore ?


  100. I m on bridging visa A, and I applied for 885 in July 2012 , if I marry an Australian citizen , can I apply for a partner visa while being on a bridging visa A , and withdraw my PR application

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No not until your relationship is at least 2 years old. BV prvents this – Schedule 3 of Migration Regulations.You could leave and apply for partner offshore.

  101. Hi grant
    I got a letter from DIAC under PIC 4020 in sponsored (Subclass 176 Vissa). when DIAC officers came my office, I was in leave. They written on letter that they have recieved unfavourable information which does not support my application. But everything is true, I am working this office. My brother sponsored my application. If my application will be rejected, my brother will not able to sponsored to any other family members of mine, ex, parents. I am eagerly waiting for your reply


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Not sure what you want me to say. I assume they have asked for you response. Tell the truth and get some supporting evidence from the place you work.

  102. Thank grant, thank you for your answer , I read the article on PIC 4020,can you please alloborate a little bit more about “compassionate or compelling circumstances” , what they could be if some one is married with an Australian citizen for a year and she is disable and sick , can the minister waive off PIC4020 and grant the visa.

    • Please if am to lodge in a different application when the old one is been refused and also to comment on compassionate or compelling circumstances or reasons why i should be granted a visa
      how do i write that and please advise me professionally because i really don’t know how to go about that and you can advice me with a letter
      Thank you

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Courage You need to pay for some help. I cannot do this over the Blog which is a free service. GW

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sullaiman It is not practical to elaborate as the possibilities are endless. If you have a particular circumstance tell me and I will give you my opinion GW

      Sent from my iPad

  103. Hi Grant,
    My name is hossain, recently i applied for my wife visa under subclass 573 and assessment level 3. My uncle is financial grantor of my wife. But on the grantors form mistakenly we wrote my wife is “daughter in law” of my uncle. But actual word should be “niece in law”, what we would not know. Now immigration sent us a letter under pic 4020 to comment on relationship written “daughter in law”. Actually we considered relationship of our countries culture and another things my student visa also granted sponsored by same person. As per as i know that on my visa regulation any body can be sponsored so we did nod do anything wrong. In addition my uncle is not my blood related uncle, he is my father’s friend.In this way he is my uncle.
    So please let me know how can i handle this situation and what is the probability to be successful.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You can try to explain all of this to them but I doubt they will be be convinced. Trying to play the culturally we see someone as an uncle when you have claimed a direct relationship is quite hard to believe as a mistake.

      • Please if am to lodge in a different application when the old one is been refused and also to comment on compassionate or compelling circumstances or reasons why i should be granted a visa
        how do i write that and please advise me professionally because i really don’t know how to go about that and you can advice me with a letter
        Thank you Please advise me through my email address and how much will you take as you saying

  104. Dear Grant,
    my brother sponsored me. As DIAC officers found some unfavorable information at my office during site investigation. I give my answer n supporting documents to case officer. if he will not convinced n reject my application. my brother sponsored me 176 vissa, in this condition. he will not able to sponsore any person in my family as my application was canceled. i have nor pb with my relatives documents.

  105. Hello this is courage and want you to advise me please through my given email address at and also for me to know how much you will charge me for your help because i need to lodge in another application and comment on why i should be granted a visa after a decision of refusal of my previous mail in connection of a notice given to me that my sponsorship Bank statement is not genuine which was not true and after given reasons why my Sponsor denied knowing me and all that because of a misunderstanding She had with me.
    They later refuse the application saying they didn’t receive any comment from my Sponsor and currently my Sponsor has traveled oversees so please help me as am advise to lodge in another application and am having support from my other families now to do that.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courage I cannot see how you can successfully fight this given what DIAC have been told. If you are in Sydney I’d be happy to meet you to discuss this. GW

  106. Hi grant
    I have been refused 485 visa and pic 4020 is applied. I am thinking of applying MRT? Am I allowed to travel overseas after putting MRTapplication? is there 3 year ban on me for applying any visa for Australia

  107. Immigration Pty Ltd

    Not sure what to say as you really don’t provide any information about your situation.

    • Hi grant,
      Sorry i typed in hurry so all mixed up, i start from the begining. i applied for my 485 with my old tra approval of oveseas in may 2011,i studied hairdressing.In march2012 disc had opened my file and asked for my medical and police check, in that mean time they inquired overseas and my and my previous boss ‘s few answer couldnt. match so they give me pic 4020 , in that mean time my current boss want to sponser me so as i was on bridging visa A , i had been apply for off shore application on 29/06/2012, sponsership and nomination approved in the month of july end.after that i withdrew my 485 in august to get rid of my pic 4020, my question is can they see my withdrawal of 485? Because till august i am waiting for my visa of 457 to be granted but not granted yet, i called 457 team about my case and they said they are busy and they have lots of file to finalised, what should i do?? Do i wait or do any other application
      Thanks hope you understand my case now.

  108. Can a 3 year ban in pic4020 b challenged in a court ?

  109. My situation is same with other people with carmine case. How do I know if I been banned for 3 years or not? Can I apply for spouse visa if I marry someone on 485 visa? Do I needed to be on shore or offshore to apply this visa? Is it compulsory people with pic 4020 get banned for 3 years or it varies from case to case?

  110. hey grant
    my visa was refused under pic 4020. and my hearing was last month . i didnot got any result yet. its almost one month. can u tell me what will be the reason for delay

  111. Hello Grant,

    My name is Abdul and i had applied for a VB 885 in May 2008 as a pre press operator.After 4 years of waiting i finally got a case officer in april 2012 and in the first email i was asked to provide the routine immigration forms alongwith my employers experience letter that i had used to obtain my TRA .Almost 2 and a half months later the second email i received asked for my medicals and police checks which were also submitted within the 28 days time frame given.Its been over a month since then and i haven’t received any response whatsoever from my CO.I am most definitely not affected by the carmine case as my studies,employment,letters and references were all bona fide.

    I had called the GSM helpline and the operator asked me to resend the police certs which i did but still received no response.

    Just wondering if this delay of almost a month after having sent all documents is normal. I mean i had assumed that the delay of 2 and a half months in getting back to me after the first email was due the checks that the CO must have done on my file.

    Please advice what could be the case as i have become a little restless working my mind overtime.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I am not DIAC and I am not your case officer. I have no idea about why it may be taking this long. It is not unusual for things to take months however. They may still be waiting for the outcome of external checks but I’m just guessing.

  112. Hi Grant
    My name is Sachin and I have applied for 885 Visa in July, 2011 after completing a 2yr Masters in Professional Accounting course and on the basis of experience I have had in accounting back home. My case officer got appointed in Dec, 11 and he stated that after verifying from their sources, they have come to a conclusion that my experience was invalid which wasn’t correct and I was given an additional 28 days to prove it otherwise. I had to submit some legal documents in order to prove I am right. Also, my employer stated that he himself/ any member of the organisation never received any calls/emails/face-face communication with anyone asking for my reference check.
    Since then I have just been waiting to hear something good from my case officer. He stated in his last reply that he’ll be taking a decision on my case leading upto June,2012 however we are over with that period now as well and I am still waiting for a positive outcome. All the documents provided are legitimate and not bogus in this case.
    Now, my question is if they still end up applying PIC4020 on my case, what options do I have apart from MRT ?
    Also, I understand that my bridging Visa still allow me to travel abroad however given the situation, Should/ Can I still travel?
    Thanks for your time and patience.

    Warm regards

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      DIAC generally only count post qualification experience so it may well be that ypu ghave claimed experience in an accounting role at home that they do not consider is post a formal Australian accounting qualification. This would not necessarily generate a 4020 determination.
      If you are on a BVA yes you can travel while at the MRT on a BVB.
      You must apply for the BVB before you travel.

  113. Hi Grant

    My boyfriend applied for visa subclass 485 in 2008. He received natural justice letter 3days ago. We have been in a relationship for 4 years but not living together. We are thinking of applying for de facto (partner) visa and withdraw his 485 application within this 28 days.

    We have just got our relationship registered thru VIC BDM department.I would like to ask for ur opinion on this. Will there be a problem and what is the consequences if we doing this? Will the pic4020 affect the new (partner visa) application? What is the chance of us be granted to the partner visa?

    Looking forward to your reply. Thank you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      U If you have not been living together you cannot apply even with a registration certificate. 4020 will not affect a partner application but he will have to apply from offshore as he is both s48 barred (onshore refusal) and I assume he has been on a BV for more than 28 days and that means he cannot meet Schecule 3 conditions for an onshore application. He must apply offshore!

      • Thanks Grant for your reply.

        Yes,he has been on bridging visa for more than 28 days.

        Grant, when you are saying that he should applly offshore, what subclass visa he should be applying for? When he is applying offsore he can apply the visa immediately after he went back home or there will be a waiting period until he can lodge this new application? And how much time he will be given to stay here after he withdraw his 485 application?

        Do u think here is no chance for him to apply ANY application onshore with that s48 in place? And Grant..when he is applying visa offshore, will he be able to come here for a visit on tourist visa or anything like that?

        You reckon there will be no problem at all and highly likely he will be granted to the visa that he lodge offshore?

        Thank you very much and I look forward again to receiving your reply.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        U Offshore partner is 309/100 s48 does not apply to offshore applications. No waiting period. I really can’t assess the application without seeing all your paperwork. GW

  114. Hai grant i am in south australia adealide my TR refused because of false document means document was right but diac said its false work experiance .i have done my volunteer experiance with employer 900 hours one during studyand we both have no record of that experiance but i have signed document by his company and signatures on third page by him but due to personal diffrence he said no to diac now my case is in migratuion tribunal what can i do now to save my case sugest me thanks

  115. my tr got refused because my employer with whom i did my volunteer experience of 900 hrs as a requirement of my study, refused to confirm dat i actually did that experience. but i have done my experience n i have got the signed experience letter from him. but diac refused my visa on the grounds that i have provided false document and have barred section 4020 on me, den i applied for mrti nw i have got hearing date for dis case. is there any possibility or way for me to prove myself right.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If the person who ’employed’ you says you did not work there it’s going to be very difficult.
      Are there other former or current staff who are willing to sign ststutory declarations to conradict what the employer is saying?
      Do you have any evidence to support the fact that this is all about the ‘personal difference’ you contend?
      If not I’d say you have very little chance of success.

  116. Sorry Grant.. more questions to ask

    You believe that when he withdraw his 485 application, he won’t be able to apply for any visa onshore? When he respond to immigration, within this 28days, that he wishes to withdraw his application, he should leave the country on the 29th days, or he should wait for a reply/instruction letter from them that he will have to leave Australia before a certain date?

    When applying for 309/100 that means he will be in his country and i will be here in australia, right? 

    In relation to paperwork that we have,as i said earlier, we have our registered relationship certificate but have not been living together. We also have a joint savings account (opened like a month ago, n this account opened for the purpose of our saving for our future), photos, arline tickets when me n him went to Sydney n Tas, we can obtain 2 stat dec from my friend (who is also his friend, as we all used to work together) n his cousin (both of them are Aus PR), We also can provide movies ticket we watched together, Phone bills showing that we both constantly calling each other everyday. Sms n emails. Our own bank statement showing when we both bought presents for each other, atm or withdrawal made when we were together. Our own statements about our relationship n our future plan. Do you think all these docs enough for us to apply the 309/100 visa?

    If u think they are not enough, what other pathway you can suggest?

    Sorry Grant that i asked too many questions. We are now extremely worry, scared n confused and trying to think what is the best solution for us n find the best action course we should take.  

    Thank you..

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      U The letter he gets back from DIA will have a date and it will tell him when the BV expires Yes that is correct for the 309. Unless you have been living together nothing will count. Cohabitation is the test. GW

  117. Hi
    my name is krutika, i lounged my 485 in may 2011 in hairdressing
    i got pic4020 of my application 485,regarding my and my previous owners answer matching of my experience and on other hand i applied for 457 offshore and before the refusal of 485 pic 4020, i withdraw my 485 . My question is can immigration seemy pic 4020 even i had withdraw it? I got approval of my sponsership and nomination of 457 but not yet the visa, are they able to see my 485 withdrawal thats the reason they r not granting my visa.
    Please give me advise..i am very stressful.
    Please give me the suggestion
    thank you

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Krutika Yes it’s all on your file. The PIC 4020 is not goverened by wether the visa application was withdrawn, granted or refused. Providing false and misleading info/docs is the wording. GW

    • hi krutika

      i also did same thing. did u got visa yet or not. i am waiting from last 2 months. no reply yet

      • Hi Kiran

        have u got your visa yet? I would like to clarify something.. so after you have made a comment to DIAC in regards to pic4020 and while you were waiting for their decision, you withdrew the visa that is subject to 4020 and then you submit brand new visa 457 application. And now you are waiting for the decision for your 457 visa?? Is that right?? Look forward to your reply.

  118. Hi Mr Grant
    I lodged two application for visa and i provide two different addresses in both the files . In one file the address where I am living and in other the address i want to live and got admission . I dint realise that I will creat a problem but case officer of my one file send an email to me in which he invite me to comment on the fraudulent information providing by me. I want to know if I withdraw one of my file is this section be removed or it will be implemented on all my visa applications and bared me to lodge any file for three years . Please advice me .
    Kind regards

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No withdrawing will not slove this problem.
      Why not just expalin clearly what you did and why – tell the truth.

      • Thanks for your valuable advice Mr Grant but I am afraid that if I will failed to convince the case officer and after my response he directly refused my application . Then I will not be able to do any thing and some one told me that i got refusal with pic 4020 then I will not be able to get the visa of any other country , is it true Mr Grant .
        Thanks once again for you reply
        Kind regard inderjit

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Inderjit Yes the 4020 would be a problem for any other application. However such a refusal is open to MRT review were you unable to convince DIAC. The very last thing you want to do now is lie to them. GW

  119. Hi
    Recently I applied my wife’s visa I gone through immigration agent from Australia he made he missed some documentation .i am student visa her visa refused pic4020 my studies finishing in 2 more years. Is there any chance to apply my wife visa .we did create any wrong documentation but it happend with Immigration agent


  120. hi Grant any possibility of travel overseas and come back while u on mrt regarding 4020 issue!!!!!!!

  121. hey grant

    i have finished my master in accounting. can u tell me i can apply for 485 visa or not. what options r available for me.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Garry Cannot tell from this amount of information. If you meet the 2 year study rule and have IELTS 6 yes. GW

  122. hi grant i am on bridging visa.i am traveling oveseas next week.igot a letter regarding pic 4020 last july i responsed that if now i am going cud they take any decision regarding my application if its refusal cud i come back to australia.i got 3 month bvb.thnx plz reply

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The fact that thay gave you the BVB inticates that GSM who will be processing your 4020 letter I assume have said they will not be making a decision during the BVB period.

  123. Hi Grant,
    The information you have provided is very much helpful and accurate. I just want to let you know about my situation. Me and my wife have lodged a file for 886 in August 2009, the IELTS result which we provided to DIAC while putting the file was as per the requirement that is 6.0 bands each, we have been made aware in Dec 2010 that the bands in IELTS marksheet doesn’t match and I have got the less bands as in actual. We weren’t aware how this happened. I applied for IELTS few times after Dec 2010 and got the required bands 6.0 each, which we submitted to MRT, and then we were called for the hearing after 1 and half years. we told them that we were not aware of that document how that happened. and made MRT aware that on how good professional positions me and my wife are currently. The member said she will give us extra 14 days to prove the compelling or compassionate circumstances to Australian Citizen. My brother is an Australian Citizen, will his letter in favour of me help to get a waiver to PIC 4020, the member has still not given me pic4020. we haven’t done anything intentionally, we even don’t know what happened to our IELTS result. we are very much worried as I have a whole family here. Please reply me as I am very much afraid.
    Thanks in advance

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Not really sure what to say to you. I cannot see how the IELTS test result you sent which I assume you looked at before sending could be different from the actaul result. DIAC check the result sheet you give them against the individual number on the IELTS sysytem. If the two are different the obvious conclusion would be either thatnthe sheet sent to DIAC has somehow been altered or there is a problem at the IELTS end. I assume the test results are computer generated by IDP the IELTS company so that seems less likely. Ther MRT will make a decision and at that stage unless you can prove there has been some legal error in your case or they decide in your favour you are out of options.

  124. Thanks for your reply Grant, do you advise anything that I can write to them in my next submission ? I am plaaning to give a submission in few days. If they don’t give me pic4020 after looking at my employers letter and my brothers letter mentioning compelling and compassionate circumstances, do I have to file my PR again or does that mean they justify my visa 886 with the same file and they are giving me PR.
    Please advise.

    • Hi grant my name is varunbhatia i applied for rsms 119 visa on 29/6/12 but didn’t got my acknlodgement yet the only I thing received a payment receipt I applied decision ready application Iam very stressed about my application my lawyer don’t give any answer what I have to do in this situation Kind regards

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        This section is running way behind in processing applications you will hear from them soon. You just have to wait. Noything anyone can do to speed this up.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Raju Perhaps you need to get professional face to face help. I cannot do this over the Blog. GW

  125. Hi Grant, thanks for your reply, do you have an email address where I can send you email or a phone number I can call you to get your advise. I am ready to pay your fees for your experts advise for my submission.

  126. Hi Grant, Thanks for the info, will call you on Monday

  127. Hi Grant,

    I wrote to you on 20th Feb 2012 regarding my SFI letter issued by DIAC. You suggested me about what to do. Hopefully DIAC has accepted my replies and two months ago asked me to submit form 80 again. But this is the 3rd times I have submitted Form 80. In before I have submitted two times police clearances from two different countries, health reports and form 80 requested by DIAC. And I am really scared that within few days they may again request me to resubmit my police clearances from two different countries and health reports again.

    Actually I want to know, does DIAC’s has any right (when it is DIAC’s fault not me) to pressurize his clients to bear these unnecessary costs and hassles? How can I avoid their unwanted demands?


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      AAH I do not think they will ask for that again. There have been updates to Form 80 so that explains why they have asked for the form again. GW

    • Hi grant, I have applied for MRT for application refusal and I have got pic 4020 on me . Can I apply for offshore 457 visa?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Akka88 You can apply but they will either not accept the application or accept it and then refuse it. It is an application ban for all applications affected by 4020 and that includes 457 visas. GW

        Sent from my iPad

  128. Thanks a lot GRANT. Your suggestions and feedback give me hope and strength.

  129. When this pic4020 starts .the day got the refused or the day you leave the country.

    I have issues with my 487 file and I have been asked for comment on it with pic4020 but my bakery owner is still with me and ready to give me every document.but before this submission I am going to apply 457 visa and if I get this my question is will this pic effect me after 2year when I will apply my PR under

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      It affects you now and will affect the 457 unless you can sussessfully resolve the question. You cannot escape this by lodging a new application and it applies for 3 years.

      • Sir
        I have not submit docs for 487 yet…what if I lodge 457 ad then withdraw 487…..?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        You said they had already made inquiries and ask you for an explanation so you already have the problem you cannot just make it go away by not sending docs or withdrawing the application. GW

        Sent from my iPad

  130. Dear Grant
    i got succesfull TRA in 2009 and succesfull TR in 2010 with pastry cook expeirience.Then i applied 487 regional sponsership in 2010 and recently CO allocate to my file and sent me email with pic4020 that department contacted my bakery ower march 2011(from where i got 900 hour experince in bakery) and he unable to veryfy me so i should comment on it.

    When i meet my bakery owner then he said last year in march 2011 some immigration people came to my bakery and showed me some pix and tell me to verify with individual name but all the faces were similar to me so i could not veryfy them and he said to me that now he can give every documents which i need for immi to satisfied them.

    but i know he give few work experiences so what shuld i do….?

    I also applied 885 with 7 bands with same work experince in 2011.This also wil def effect i reccon.

    I am also planing to lodge offsure 457 visa with 1 year diploma and cafe manager post… before 28 days to save my future.

    1.Now my query is ..Should i submit docs for 487 or widraw.

    2.If i lodge 457 visa then i submit docs for 487 and anychance i got refusal unde 4020…will this effect my 457 file….?

    3.if i got 457 approved and also i fight for 487 with MRT then after 2 year when i willl lodge ENS for Parmanent Residency…will this pic4020 effect me because its ban for 3 years.

    4.When PIC4020 starts..the day got refusal of Leave the country.

    Sir i have visited so many agents or lawyers but i have not get any right suggestion.Every one is different so please tell me what should i do.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Already answered on the previous post.

      • Sir
        I am going to apply 457 with 1 year diploma and cafe manger postition and I am not going to use my previous experience in 457 then how it can effect me…..if I withdraw 487.

        On the other hand if lodge 457 with manager post with 1year diploma and later i mean before 28 days fight for 487 or mrt or federal then…..?
        Which is the best option.i know your time is very costly but please help me

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Raman I have already answered this question. You go ahead and do what you must but if there are notes on your file that they have questioned documents etc they will all be able to se them in each section of DIAC you only have one computer file. GW

        Sent from my iPad

  131. Hi Grant

    I have been sent a PIC 4020 notice by DIAC stating that my TRA assessment was not genuine. I am in brisbane and I have nothing to do with Carmine. According to DIAC they had visited the workplace and my employer did not endorse the fact that I as well as other applicants in question had worked for him at that point in time. I have spoken to my employer since I recieved the notice and he who is willing to give in writing that I worked for him. I am planning to file an MRT case if DIAC is not satisfied with the response. On the other hand I am also contemplating applying for 457 employer sponsorship as my current employer is willing. Would it be a gud idea if i apply for 457 and just withdraw my 885 application. Would I be still up for the ban for 3 years even if I withdraw my current application and keep my employers letter for any future reference for DIAC . Your response would be really appreciated.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The 4020 questions will affect any application you now make unless you can resolve the concerns successfully. Withdrawing does not make the questions go away.
      It will be very hard for this employer to now say oh yes now I remember him when he said he did not before. Immigration will not be impressed.

    • Harry brother can you plz contact me on cuz I am in same situation.

  132. Hi grant, when does 3 year ban starts on pic 4020 . Date of refusal of visa application or date of refusal at MRT hearing?

  133. hi grant. last week i comment on pic4020 to immi, i provide snaps working with chef, timesheets, stat declaration, but today refused my 485 giving reason that ur chef signature on timesheet and stat declaration is not matching and they also gave reason that we called to ur restaurant but phone is unavailable. thats all they gave reason.

    but i want tell you that timesheets were signed by my chef and he opened new restaurant under same brand name but in different suburb and i talked to him regarding this he said to me just provide new contact details to immi about my restaurant and i will look after you. SO wht u think about my case in which immi not given very strong reason to cancel my 485 file. thnks

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      They check signatures and they don’t match? What has happened here?
      Your only hope is now the MRT but it seems that you will have a few things to explain to be able to convince them.
      The MRT will listen and they will follow up the alternate contact for the employer.

      • Grant i also lodged 866 in 2009 so i m still safe side, and regarding signature it was both signed by my chef but sign on stat declaration is did very professional way and time sheets is like he did normal like we do sometimes with no important papers, my another query is can i supply to immi my employer new contact details on my 866 file before they will do any decision on my 866 file? Or wht u suggest to me?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Harry S Yes you can but I would not as the 4020 was not a criterion on the 886 so it will not affect that one and the MRT are the one who need the signature info etc GW

        Sent from my iPad

      • Hi sir, as u know i already explain my case to you, so what u suggest me to do now should i appeal to MRT for my 485 or should i wait for my 886 file to be processed?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Harrys I do not make your decisions for you and all I have seen is a few email posts. You need to get face to face help if you don’t know what to do. Not a fair question. GW

        Sent from my iPad

  134. Hey GW,
    Could you please tell how long does the immigration usually takes for deciding on the visas related to PIC 4020. I received a mail from the CO regarding- comment on the fraudulent information supplied on 18 July, to which I replied in 2 days with all the required documents but haven’t heard anything from the CO since then. Also, all my documents are genuine and I have submitted enough evidences to support my claim, are there any chances that I’ll get a result in my favor or do they reject all the visa applications subjected to PIC 4020.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No I cannot tell you how long. They are probably checking the docs you have sent. You just get to wait for them to finish.

  135. hey Grant,
    Thanks for your reply. Would like to share with you that I finally got my visa after 4 months of wait. I hope this will bring some kind of positivity and hope to the readers anxiously waiting for their visas after being subjected to PIC 4020.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Shruti Thanks for letting us know. GW

      On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi , I got a letter for comment on 4020 pic last week i have to give reply till 10th December to immigration but I have to go oversease next week for attending my brother marriage I will come back on 30th December . I have appointed a good lawyer I just want to know that can I go and what is the procedure

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        I think this a question you should be asking your “good lawyer’ as really I think it is their call as they know all the details.

    • Hi shruti, can u please share with us what situation u were in? What type is docs and info did I provide to CO? I’m in similar situation now, they suspect on my work experience but it is bona fide, I have supplied reference letter and payslips and now they are asking for more. Please help me

      • Hi Crystal,
        Sorry for late reply. here is the brief of my case: An immigration officer made a call to my sponsor to check if he has given all the financial documents or not. But due to some miscommunication between the two I rcvd the mail regarding PIC 4020. I replied with my own detailed explanation of the situation along with the declarations from my sponsor and bank authorities and all the bank documents related to the suspected loan document. After submitting these i had to wait for 4 months to get the visa approval mail.
        If your documents are genuine, u need not worry. Because your case is for TR/PR, they might be needing more documents; provide as much evidence as you can and leave no stone unturned. hope u get a positive outcome.
        Thanks Mr. Grant for your expert advice and giving us this common platform to get solutions to our biggest problems.


  136. Hi Grant, I have recently receive a 4020 letter for my 175 application. When the department called my boss to confirm my work experience, he was on the road and couldn’t know who the department asked, so he refused to confirm n said he will call back, after realising the department was asking about me, he immidiately called them back to confirm, he’s then asked to come to the office where he shows all my details. In the 4020 letter, the department asked me to comment on the fact that why he didn’t confirm when they first called him, hence they concern that I am not known to my boss. My work experience is genius, just my boss temporarily forgot about me at the time of the call. Now the only extra doc I can provide are my payment summary and a letter from the chief accountant, plus explain to them why my boss said no at the time. Do you think I will have a good chance of success?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sounds like it should be fine I’d also get a a Sata Dec from the employer.

      • Thank u a lot for your reply. The thing I worried the most is that when my boss answered the call, he forgot about me and said no to all questions n said the company has one accountant doing the work in the past 3 years. But in fact I was working there for a short time of 4 months, if I provide time sheet signed by the chief accountant, group cert, copy of tax return, would it b ok? I can’t provide bank statements as when working there the money was little n I always needed money to buy food and stuff so I always asked my boss to give me cash rather than get it transferred in to my bank ac, Is it ok not to to vide bank statement? Regarding statutory dec from my boss, he has gone on vacation n won’t n back after 3 weeks, would CO gives me more time to respond? Thank u Grant

  137. hi
    i got my tra assessed in 2009
    i did an year of voluntary work i.e. 900 hrs
    now applied for my pr under transitional arrangements and diac is asking for
    further evidence including payslips , group certs and bank statements etc..
    but the work was voluntary
    the buisness is closed and the owner is overseas
    any suggestions …

  138. hi
    i got the same letter i also have done 900 hours voluntary but they asking for payslips. my owner gave me stat dec saying that i work there voluntary. i dont know what to do.can u reply me on or

  139. navdeep what was your occupation ??

  140. hospitality and tourism

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Navdeepduggal Not much you can do and it sems DIAC will refuse the application. Not sure who advised you this was OK but they were wrong. There is no magic solution as DIASC are bound by NSW employment law. GW

      On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  141. hi
    i got my tra in automotive assessed in 2009
    i did an year of voluntary work i.e. 900 hrs
    i was on 485 visa and then applied for my pr under transitional arrangements, ielts 7 each ,and diac is asking for
    further evidence including payslips , group certs and bank statements etc..
    but the work was voluntary
    the business is closed and the owner is overseas
    any suggestions …

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      What state are you in? If NSW this will be a problem due to NSW employment laws.
      Why is it that everyone who emails me with voluntary work worked for a business that is now closed and they cannot find the owner. My point is that everyone tells DIAC this story and they don’t believe it.

  142. Hello,
    Im to comment on compassionate and compelling circumstance or a statement of reasons why the exclusion period should be waived on a previous application i made before my current application can be processed and i have send you details in your mail.
    Can u please advise me and help on how to comment on this compassionate and compelling circumstance since i have some few days to do that.
    you can mail me on and please is urgent pls.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courage I do not take on client based work in this way over the Blog. You need to engage someone to assist you if you want this sort of help. It takes hours of time to read supporting docs, make an assessment and compose responses and no one can afford to do that for you for free. Sorry. GW

      On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Im willing to pay and and want you to assist me in doing that can send me reply in my mail at
        please want you to assist me and I will pay the fee involve because im really frustrated please.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Courage It really is much better if you see someone face to face so they can ask questions etc.. As I said I do not take work on this way it is too difficult and not prudent for me or for you. GW

        On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  143. hi, DIAC is saying in NSW its illegal to work voluntary according to NSW industrial Law and they posted it in FAIR WORK ACT 2009,but NSW industrial Relations complied this FAIR WORK ACT 2009 on 1st JAnuary 2010. SO what about the applications lodged before this act

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      This is not an immigration law question you need to ask a lawyer who specialises in employment law. GW

      On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  144. i sent all these references and copy of fair work act 2009 to my case officer which clearly says that NSW industrial relaton started this act in 2010 before that there was no such thing that working voluntary is illegal.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Well I guess that is all you can do. I say again not my area you need a lawyer. GW

      On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  145. Hi grant,
    I applied for 175 subclass and recently got a 420 letter . My CO rang my boss up twice to check my employment , he denied knowing me due to mishearing the name and not remember me at that time, after he check old employee files he realised it was me he then call back to confirm. Now I only have payment summary, notice of assessment, tax return, nd time sheets. I don’t have super statement or bank statement cause I closed them both. Would these evidence enough? Will they ask for more?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I really can’t say what your CO is thinking and I have not heard the convesations between the CO and your employer. This happens a lot and I find it amazing that employers can’t remmeber who works foir them esp for that long period. This also makes DIAC very suspicious.
      maybe it will be OK???

      • Hi grant
        My employment was only 4 months, n CO Contacted my boss 3 months after signing the letter for me. He said he did come to the Immi office to confirm that after remember , but I don’t know why CO still sent me the 4020 letter,

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti All you can do is reply as best you can. GW

        On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  146. hi grant i very depressed becoz of my visa. i got 4020 on my 485 file becoz my agent put false document with my file. i have my all genuine document and do not have ielts i need 6 in each but have overall 6. MRT ask me do you have your genuine document now what should i do. can i ask them to give me some time for my preparation of ielts exam or can i apply dependant visa with my husband becoz he applied for 457 visa. i was not aware that my agent is also making me a fool for earning money. as department also knew that he did with the people. thanks

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No you will not get extra time in these circumstances. You will have an application ban due to 4020 of 3 yaers/

    • did u got hearing in mrt. i am in same situation. i waiting for my result from last 5 months. did not got any answer yet.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Garry The MRT is taking up to 2 years right now! GW

        On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  147. Hi,

    I don’t know if I’m on the right Blog but here goes.
    I entered Ozzie on my British passport and by mistake overstayed and now have a 3 year ban , if was by mistake. I’ve just got a nz passport and hoping I can get in on that? Does anyone know that answer?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      How do you overstay by mistake? Yes you can on a NZ special Purpose visa – it’s a 444 and it is automatic for NZ passport holders.

      • Hi GW

        Thank you for the quick reply, I was on a travel visa and I thought I could come & go for up to a year but as I found out at the airport leaving OZ that is not the case. I had to leave every 3 months. My silly mistake but now have a 3 year ban on me. I now have my NZ passport will they let me in on that, even with the 3 yr ban? cos I don’t want to get there and be in more trouble even I am already in.

        I do believe they can cancel a 444 is that right?
        Is it best I get the 444 visa arranged here in NZ before I go to OZ?

        Many Kind Regards

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Davinia Yes they will. It is automatic for all NZ citizens you do not need to apply. GW

        On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi GW

        I’ve spoken to a few lawyers and they said the Law is a little grey in the area of a NZ citizen coming in on a 3 year ban. One lawyer said yes your get in and the other said no cos the ban is on you not the passport you come in on. He also said I could get to the airport and get banned for life if I’m not careful. Are you 110% sure I’ll be able to get in or is it best I check with DIAC first?
        Thanks for your help

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Davinia You are not seriously asking me to give you a guarantee over my Blog for free are you? Besides being unlawful for me to do so it really is a bit much. I have given you my opinion and you have sought others obviously. Up to you now. GW

        On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  148. yup i sent all referencand immigration news update of 2010 to my CO which saying that TRA aseesment changed from 1 january 2010v ( JOB READY TEST )
    before that they considered voluntary experience as well for assesment. How come my CO dont know there rules doesnot apply to me becaz i applied before the rule changes

  149. Hi grant
    My name is umesh koirala i have few thing to ask hope u r always there to help. I got ur email from your blog.
    First thing i came australia at the end of year 2007 on student visa course was commercial cookery after 6 months i changed college i was paying fees properly i finished cert III but my college didnt give me cert III Instead of that they were asking full fees then only they would give me the certificate i was really horrified with that.
    Later on i had to extend my visa but they was asking me full payment of the fees to get the new coe n other extra payment for the extension of my visa i got pissed coz that was not possible for me.
    Later on i went to one of the agent n they got me new coe from other college by which i extend my visa. But later new college keep asking me cert III n transfer cert n they were threatning me to complain to diac. Well my old college didnt give me any documents so i was pissed again.. Then i just didnt do anything just keep quiet i didnt worry abt any study whatever happens..
    Later i was passing by the city and some of the boys were distributing agents leaflet i got one the name of the agent org was SnS. It was written like working visa upto 5 years full time work so i was happy n i went there he said u can stay here upto 5 years then u have to go back. I thought its the only option i have. He just asked my passport thats all. After a week he says ur visa has arrived. I went there n got the paper it was like bridging visaA. I thought somethint is wrong he applied something else. But i was happy like i got the visa whatever it is coz i was really fade up with everything what has happen to me in past.
    Now the interesting thing is after a year i tried to go to their office but the office was closed later i got to know that those people were caught n was red handed by diac that they were applying bogus visa with fraud documents n their office was shut down.. So i found out he applied my was tr with bogus tra number in which my application was cancel obiviously, with section pic2040.. Now ibwas really nervous. I went to few other agents they said the only option was to apply for mrt. I did that now currently i am in mrt visa.

    I dont know what will be my next option coz i dont wanna go back to my country now. For ur info i work in a cafe as a Chef. I had worked there abt three m half years. They were interested in doing sponser to me.. They dont know my issue.. Having worked their for long time they are thinking abt it were asking me how to apply what else is needed and all that. The problem is i dont have any certificate with me is it possible to apply with the experience i have got.

    I would be very greatful to u sir if u can show me a good way..

    Thanks yomesh

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Too long to read sorry I just do not have time to read essays for free. If you have a simple question try to summarise and ask it. If you need someone to read this you will need to ge paid help.

  150. Hi grant, I already shared my case on this blog as I got pic 4020 in June on my visa 885 I send all further evidence and luckily my visa has been granted. I would like to thank you for all your advices and I hope this will bring a positivity for those who are honest and innocent I must say to those applicants who are facing this do not stress send your all further evidences n hope for best. It is just a rumor that DIAC not considering any further submission they are very co operative that’s my experience. They are trained and smart enough to find out the truth. Thnx

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      M That’s great – well done. Happy to help. Grant

      On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

    • Hi M,
      Can u share with me why u got PIC 4020? on what background? and how long did u reply back to them? Did u send a letter of compelling circumstances as well? i have the same prob and i will have a payment summary, notice of assessment, Tax return, timesheets, reference letter frommy supervisor. what docs did u send them ? and did they ask for anything else? thank u alot

  151. Hi M
    thanks for giving us hope.I also have sent further evidences including Stat Dec from my employer regarding my voluntary work experience in 2009.i also have send the reference saying that they stopped voluntary work experience from 1st jan 2010. i applied before it (dec 2009) . my case said she will give me decision soon.hope for the best.and thanks Grant for ur advice

  152. Hi Grant,
    I am going to reply my PIC 4020. I have timesheets and reference frommy supervisor. But his signature on timesheets is shorter in the reference letter, the signature on the letter has all letters of his name while the signature on timesheets has his first and last letters of his name. I have contacted him regarding this and asked for another reference letter with the signature like on timesheets. But he is abit annoyed and said ” just tell immi to contact him if they suspect his signature”. I dont know if i should send this letter with an explanation or not

    My work experience is genuine, i have all docs to support my claim. But i dont know if i should write a letter telling the compelling circumstances that i have like my english ability(8.0 overall), length of stay in Australia ( 7 years) and community intergration( business and charity work). I worry if i send this letter then they may think my docs were false that is why i have to send this type of letter to waive the PIC 4020

    Dou think it is a good ideal to send both commenting letter and a letter of compelling circumsrances at the same time?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes use all the evidence you have. No they will not think that you have to cover all the bases when you are asked to respond.

  153. yahooooo………………….i got PR…………thanks Grant and everyone

  154. hi grant
    i have applied for 485 ……but pic 4020 is imposed on me now and i have few days to comment on that … officer believe that the voluntart work experience which i provided for my application is bogus document and i have paid for my experince to the restaurant owner…During my work experience i was working with security company more then 30 hours which was also breach of my student visa condition …….could you suggest me anything how can i waive out pic 4020 from my application after all this ….i provided all all statements of declaration to TRA before and it was successfull

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      DIAC must have some good reason for making this suggestion. Do you know why they are saying this? I note you are not saying they are wrong?

  155. Hi, in my opinion the immigration department can overhear the conversation between u and ur employer, that is why they suspect u paid ur emplyer for ur work experience

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Suti Not sure what this is all about but Immigration cannot “overhear” anything. That is totally illegal and they do not follow such practices. Please do not offer opinions like this on the Blog as all you are doing is scaring and confusing readers. Grant Williams

      On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  156. hi
    tell truth to DIAC they know each and everything thats why they are trained for. they are very good in understanding the situations and they look every aspects before making any decisions

  157. hi william
    rob here
    i got visa rejection from diac in sep 2011 with pic 4020 .
    then apply in MRT and i got rejection dec 2012 again with 4020 .
    i wanna know when the restriction of 3 yr bar starting . when i got visa rejection from diac of MRT .

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Hi Rob it is Grant NOT William.
      Generally from the date of the MRT decision as this is the final decison on your application.

    • hy rob
      i also got rejection from MRT under pic 4020.
      ur occupation was hairdressing .
      your mrt officer was lynda or smeone else

      Are applying in fedral court or leaving aust.
      please tel me what we can do next

  158. Hi
    I need help, i hope you can help me. Australian embassy is seeking for a compassionate and compelling circumstances. Can you give me examples of acceptable compassionate and compelling circumstances affecting australian resident? My father is an australian resident

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      More info?
      What visa are you applying for and what are the reasons you have been asked to respond in this way.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      This is too open ended a question. Someone needs to do this the other way around – that is look at your circumstances and see if you can meet DIAC policy in this area.
      get some face to face help immediately

  159. i am applying for student visa (573) this is just a re application. they review my re application but they are seeking for a compassionate and compelling circumstances for the waiver of my 3 years ban

  160. the reason of my first refusal is because of a fraudulent document. i re apply and explained that the reason why i was not able to comment on my first application is due to the reason beyond my control. my first agency did not submit my comment( compelling and compassionate). and now in my re-application, they are seeking me again a letter of comment giving compassionate and compelling reason to waive my 3 years ban. my case officer say that i must satisfy her in order to grant me a visa. is being reunited with my father an acceptable compassionate reason? since we have not had a long bonding ever since i was a child because he is working overseas ever since i was a child?

  161. my first refusal says that they have given me a chance to comment on my suspected fraudulent document but no comment has reached them until the time frame.

  162. thank you sir for your reply. i will wait for your respond. i hope you can help me.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Albert Your 4 emails… No reunion with your father is not a c & C reason in DIAC terms. Very difficult to get a ban overturned if you have provided a fraudulkent document. If these are the only circumstances and you did provide a false document I don’t like your chances. GW

      On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  163. Hi Grant,
    I am from India, earlier filed a VE 176 family sponsored visa and it was rejected as the employment could not be verified. Following a review, I have a recent MRT success as the case was remitted to the department with the direction that I meet the employment criteria for visa grant.
    Could you please advise me what would be the next process as I have not heard from New Delhi visa office 1 month after MRT success.

    Jaswinder Singh

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The MRT send the file back to DIAC and they send it to India and then they process the application from where they left off last time. Eventually they will contact you in relation to further processing. It takes at least a couple of months and once that time has passed you’d be entitled to contact them and ask for a progress report. If they are not forthcoming get your sponsor to contact their local Federal Member of Parliamnet for some assistance as DIAC should process remitted applications promptly.

  164. Hi grant,

    Thank younfornyour reply. What is my chance if i apply for tourist visa? Is this
    Possible even if i am ban for 3 years?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Albert A 3 year ban applies to all visa applications. GW

      On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  165. Hi Grant,
    Thanks for the prompt response. My visa rejection was skill linked and all other criteria were met. Now the MRT has remitted the file with the direction that I meet the criteria for which the visa was rejected. Is it possible that department can still refuse my visa? Or on some other grounds ? Or apply the PIC?


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Jaswinder Yes. They will have stopped processing when they decided that you did not meet the criterion that the MRT has now reversed. if they find something else that does not meet the criteria to grant the visa they will refuse it aain. GW

      On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:10 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  166. Hello sir , how r u sir I have a little query on my status actualy I had applied for student visa and my visa was refused by sec8020 ,And by mistake I overstayed and when I came to know if was late ,DIAC issue me BVE with S48 ,so I apply mrt but DIAC suggest me that u have to leave the country bcos I had not applied the MRT within28 days but still they issue me BVE for more 2 months and tell me to wait till the MRT decision but then finally I decided to leave the country now my point is that can I apply a student visa for my wife and I accompany her on a spouse visa as a offshore visa and will I be affected by pic 4020 because I overstayed in Australia because on visa refusal there’s nothing such thing written and affter 5 months my MRT was also refused I come to know as I applied out of time will my MRt application will put me in pic 4020 ,as the bridging visa e that I get in Australia while I applied MRT they make a remark that I may be affected by pic 4020 , is it because I had applied for MRT , overstayed because nothing is written on my visa refusal or it is just a possibility that I may be affected and if not I can apply my wife visa and get a suppose visa , please kindly. Reply my queries , waiting on ur reply thanks.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I’d say you will certainly be subject to 4020 and a 3 year ban. Overstayed + 4020 decision. So no you will not be able to make an application as a secondary applicant.

  167. Hi Grant, great blog! my question is the following one, i was in australia 2 years ago i came for only 7 months but i had to travel back to PERU because they put me that condition that i have to go back to re apply, the thing is that i did something very bad… because my certificate from the institute i study before will take up to 3 months to be generated i made a false certificate… and apply with that, at the first place they didnt find out but the second time they did… so they denied the visa… my agent told me that the only chance for me to go back to Australia is applying for university is that true? i was reading here that i have to wait 3 years to reapply? also my sister is applying for a partner visa, does it help me somehow? i really wanna go to study, i think the believe that i want to stay illegal… is there something my sister’s husband can do?
    thank so much!!

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You must have a 3 year ban on all applications in this situation. No idea what the agent is talking about re University. No your sisiter’s application has no impact on your situation.

  168. Hi Grant, thank you so much for your response.. one more question. do immigration put this 3 year ban in the Final Decision Record? because they did not put anything about this in there.. or do i have to assume that i got it? and after 3 years… my history is deleted? or i have to be prepare to have another refused?

    thank you

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Aldo No they do not put that in the Decision Record. No your record is not cleared you just move beyond the ban period. You can apply again after 3 years but you can bet they will look very closely at any application you make from then on. GW

      On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant, I just got a notice of refusal after being sent pic 4020 letter. In the decision record, the CO use very stupid reason to refuse the visa. One of the extra docs I supplied after the letter is a reference from my senior accountant, the CO said that this letter was dated the day after the timeframe ( 2 years period). However, the timeframe only apply to the period of employment that I claimed. My employment is genuine, I don’t know if I can hire a lawyer to bring this case to Court? As in the letter CO said I don’t have any review rights.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti That sounds odd and if that is the only reason it is more than odd. What subclass of application was this? GW

        On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Yes Grant, it is very odd. It was for subclass 175. I feel like this co lacks of experience n knowledge. Together with that docs I submitted a statutory declaration from my employer restating my employment period and my duties at the company but CO said it does not address her concerns( her concerns are she rang up my boss, my boss denied knowing me coz he was on the road and didn’t have employees records with him, but soon after remember me he immidiately called the Immi back to confirm ). Others docs are time sheet which CO said it is easily obtainable, copy of my tax return which CO said there is no third party verification( CO should have checked with tax office ), payment summary n notice of assessment from tax office which CO said they don’t show my duties , but these docs are not intended to show my duties they are intended to show that I was employed by the company. To show my duties I submitted statutory dec from my employer but CO SAID it does not address her concerns. The CO keep saying my docs do not show intentions which they are not supposed to be submitted for

  169. I am sure that if I have a chance in Court about this case I will win. But the problem is I don’t have any review right. Is there any other way I can bring this to the attention of higher level of people in Immi ? Like the minister ? Because this decision is obviously biased and CO made a decision according to her feelings not my supporting docs.

    • To verify my docs the CO should have contacted third parties provided in those docs to verify info but she did not do any of these. CO should have conducted a workplace search or interview to confirm my employment

      • And I did sent a letter showing my compelling circumstances but my in the decision record my CO does not say whether I am qualified for a wave of pic 4020 . Is it odd too ?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti Your 4 emails. 175 visas have no review process and this leaves you veryn little in the way of options. For DIAC to refuse the visa they must have had real concerns and the fact that your employersaid he did not know you is probably the major problem here. In terms of any court action you would need to consult a lawyer (I’m only a Migration Agent) for this advice. GW

        On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant, my employer said he didn’t know me because he misheard my name n mistook it with other employees, but soon after realising it was me he called them back to confirm, he was invited to a meeting with my CO where he showed all docs about me that my CO asked for. Is there any chance for me to go to minister intervention ?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti There is no formal process for 175 in nthis way. By all means attempt to tell the Minister there has been an error. GW

        On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant, thank u a lot for ur response. I feel very frustrating with the Immi system. My employment is bona fide n I supplied all docs that i possibly can have as an employee , ,including statutory declaration from my employer. It would not be easy to obtain these docs if I did not work there. But my CO said they are easily obtainable , what is going on in her head? She didn’t even bother checking these docs with third parties to find out the truth, she made a decision just relying on the fact that she is not satisfied , namely she put her personal judgement over paper evidence I provided. This is not a way that a CO would handle the case. My employment are genuine n now I don’t even have any review rights

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti You cannot be sure what checks they have done. Also they do see a huge volume of false paperwork esp from the subcontinent. I say again the employer is really to blame here as it would seem he was not very convincing. It is really hard to follow up these type of errors from offshore as DIAC just don’t want to know about it. In the ned legal action may be the only avenue and for this you must find a lawyer who might be willing to take on the case. It is very expensive as well! GW

        On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Yes at first I blamed my employer but after realising THE CO apply the timeframe against the reference letter from my senior accountant, I started to question her ability as a CO and her knowledge about the Immi laws, if she does not understand a simply Immi rule about the timeframe, then I don’t think her decision is a well considered one

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti I’m sure that the CO does understand the rule. Not sure what else I can do for you here though. Someone needs to look at your paperwork and see if this is in fact an error. GW

        On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  170. Hello Grant, thank you so much for your help… in your previous response you told me that i have a 3 years ban because i provided a false document to immigration… only 2 years to go now…. my question is: in my home country PERU there is no specialise people who can help me, like an immigration Agent or a lawyer, would you be able to help to apply for my student visa? my sister is in australia so she can be the contact between you and me OR you cannot help me and i have to look someone in Peru? just let me know please, thank you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Aldo My business does not make student applications. Sorry. GW

      On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi Grant… Just found your blog and really need some advice..

        I am currently on a 417 visa that I gained a years extension from they fraud regional work.. My ex employer put me up to it.. Now they have told DIAC. The case has been risen as I am in the process of applying for a 457 visa.. I have got the pic 4020 letter.. My lawyer is telling me to withdraw the application and leave ASAP and under some loop hole I can reapply in 12 months.. My current visa expires next week.. My lawyer feels they won’t cancel it as it expires so soon.. I find this hard to believe., my 28 days to respond to the letter from DIAC ends on Friday.. They feel if I withdraw the application and reapply in 1 year that as the pic may not be applied now then after 12 months it can’t be applied as the law states that I havnt held a visa in 12 months.. This makes no sense to me.. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Yes the ‘lawyer’ you have consulted has a point. The issue is complex but I have seen this work.
        The 457 is doomed in any case so in the end what other options do you have?

      • Thanks for the quick response.. I don’t really have any other options and have excepted the fact that I will be leaving.. Weather it’s for 1 year or 3 is the problem.. Do you feel that if I withdraw the application ( which is the reason why the pic 4020 has been sent and not in relation to my current 417) that because my 417 expires on the 13th, the pic is unlikely to be attached?? I find the situation very confusing.. Basically what my lawyer is saying is that they would have to address my 417 directly to me which would require a further 28 days as the current pic letter is in relation to my 457 application, by withdrawing thou I feel they will attach the pic anyway?? The other option is to attempt to fight it, I did submit the document but there are strong grounds around the duress I was put under by employers offering me a sponship that they had no intention to proceed with.. Again my lawyers view on this is that I won’t have enough evidence and that a possible 1 year is better than a definite 3 years… Hope this is making sense

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark The PIC 4020 does not really work that way. You have provided false info already. Any new application can then return to look at this problem. Withdrawing does not really avoid the problem. I don’t think you can win the fight by blaming someone else. You did it. I’m not as confident as your lawyer that the 3 will become 1. GW

        On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • What do you feel the best course of action is then?? So next year if I reapply then they will flag it up again?? Currently it’s only a request to comment, if I leave the country and my visa naturally expires then I won’t have answers to anything??

  171. Sorry also in what instance have you seen my initial comment work?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Mark I have seen people come back who should have had the full 3 years after 12 months. This may just have been the bedding down period of this 4020 but there is a provision about this relating to the 12 month period. This as I said before is what your lawyer is referring to. The nature if this problem is that it is on your file and as soon as you reapply DIAC can raise the issue again. It’s a flag in the sytem. GW

      On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Ok

        Basically I just rechieved a response from my lawyer.. It states that the pic letter has been sent in relation to my current visa application.. If I withdraw then they will let me comment on my current visa but it expires so really there is nothing to comment on.. 457 has been withdrawn and 417 has expired.. Thus no ban as yet

        He feels that if they wanted to ban my 417 it would have already started via a letter direct to me ( I’m not sure about this )

        He feels that under the pic legislation part 1 have you held a visa over the previous 12 months will result on answer No therefor allow they won’t like that I havnt commented and withdraw the application they can’t by law refuse a visa as there has been no pic and no fradulanet claims in the previous 12 months

        Could this at all make any sense? Or does it seem like a fairy tale? I literally may have to back up and leave within days

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark This all makes sense. GW

        On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi sir, sandeep here you are very kind give information to everyone i have just one question that i am now on mrt with pic4020 can i will apply pr or not

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Not onshore and the 4020 will apply unless you win at the MRT to any new application.

  172. Hi sir, thanks for quick respose i want to know about that my students visa refuse for founds and i am also under pic 4020 but now we have put genuine founds after mrt and my all fees coming from founds what do you think i will win my mrt or not and if i will apply pr offshore is this ok for me plz help me to out from this problem. Thanks

    • Hi Grant,
      A letter from an colluegue in supporting my employment named” confiation of ploy meant”. Is it appropriate? Should this letter be named differently, like “reference letter” or ” supporting letter”?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti Really does not matter what it is called just what it says. GW

        On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sandeep No I don’t think that fixes the previous fraud. So no I do not think you will be successful at the MRT. GW

      On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  173. Hi Grant, I just found your blog and would like to seek your advice.
    I’m holding class 885 visa and it will expire October 2013. Since I got married and my husband works in Korea it is hard for me to fulfill the condition which I have to be in Australia for another 9 months before my visa expires. I was working in Australia for 6 months as tax accountant before I got married. I still hold my Australian bank account, never been closed, and try to save money to buy property in Australia. I would love to come back and live in Australia but at the moment the situation doesn’t work that way. Can you advise me what options I have to extend my visa without staying 9 months more in Australia? Thank you heaps.

  174. Yes, Grant. I understand that part. I have been in Australia for 1 year and 3months since my PR visa granted. But unfortunately I’m unable to stay here longer as my husband’s work is back in Korea. Does this mean I can only renew one year visa , not 5 years? What sort of evidence I need to prepare to prove my substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties of benefit to Australia? can you also give me some examples of compelling reasons for my absence?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Jenni Yes only 1 year and the other is too much info for a Blog answer I’m afraid. I suggest you get some professinal face to face advice from an experience agent near to you. GW

      On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  175. Hi grant,
    actually i applied for offshore PR(121) with overseas experience. The high commission of delhi contacted my employer and got very good response. But they also called me t the same time and asked some questions. At that moment i was engaged with some official work. But i answered them and some of the answers didnt match(me and employer). Cause it wase about more than 7 yrs ago and i was in middle of sth and couldnt remember clearly(i told them). will that effect my visa?i am here in Australia atm. Please help . I am really anxious atm. What sort of response i might get from them, Will they ask for some additional documents?Plz let me know(roughly)


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I don’t read minds so it is impossible to say. Common sense tells me taht it depends on the degree of the disparity in your answers. If it is simple stuff it will probably have no impact but if the differences are major that will not go well.

  176. Hi there,I am about to apply for visa 190 with a positive vic state sponsorship.Im from ireland but currently in canada.I had a a canadian visitor visa refused 1 year ago and im still currently in canada.
    Do i tell diac this?will they check my status in canada and find out i dont have a status?

    Also i have worked alot of cash jobs over the past few years but i do have reference letters from every employer i have worked.
    Will that be enough evidence?I dont have no pay slips or nothing.
    Phone verification is not a problem for any employer.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes tell them it is always bets to tell the truth and if they find out then they will refuse your visa. It will not be a problem if youtell them.
      Can’t say about the work I’d need to see your references. However saying you’ve been evading paying tax is not a good idea.

  177. So basically telling them im “illegal” in canada.That wont affect my application?Or do i just say about my visa refusal and nothing more?
    Im not sure what questions are on the application regarding my situation?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Damien What ever the questions be honest it will not affect your partner application. They may ask questions which you should answer if required honestly and it will be OK. GW

      On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  178. Hi Grant,
    I am from India, earlier filed a VE 176 family sponsored visa and it was rejected as the employment could not be verified. Following a review, I have a recent MRT success as the case was remitted to the department with the direction that I meet the employment criteria for visa grant.

    I belong to priority group 4. I have a reply from the immigration that 2012-2013 planning level have reached. I have wasted 3 years of mine trying for Australian migration, did not take up better jobs that came my way as I thought I would get PR soon and it would not be good for the employer if I leave the job immediately after joining. Is there anything at all we can do to get the visas? Could you please help me by suggesting when do I have the chance of getting a PR or if I ever get one?

    Thanks a lot for all suggestions you give through this blog,
    Jaswinder Singh

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Jaswinder. There is no way to speed up the process. DIAC will be announing processing policy for these visas next month I’m told. What that means I have no idea. All you can do is wait I’m afraid. GW

      On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  179. Hey grant,
    Does the 3 year ban apply to transit visa too?
    I need to book a flight to New Zealand, but all airlines who provide the tickets to auckland stopover in Australia

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Suti I would not think so as you don’t get out of immigration clearance. But not really sure. Ask DIAC GW

      On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  180. Hi My name is Gary.
    My visa is cancelled under pic 4020 and I am wondering that am I eligible to apply an offshore rsms visa or I can’t even apply that for three years?
    Look forward for your reply.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Garry DIAC will impose a 3 year all applicantion ban on you. GW

      On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi Grant, I applied 856 on overseas qualification with electronics trades person. And now i got refusal because negative verification old employer. Now my sponsor and one migration lawyer in Melbourne told me that I can apply for 457 visa. They put me 4020 me and my wife as well. So my question is I applied in MRT so now I can apply 457 visa or not??
        I will be much appreciate you advise.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Sonu You cannot apply for anything onshore as you have an onshore refusal and a s 48 bar on onshore applications. I you have a 4020 refusal you will have a total application ban up to 3 years. You would have to win your MRT case first. GW

        On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  181. Hello grant , I get refusal with 4020 pic now I am in mrt can u pl tell me that can I apply for any other offsure visa like , 457 ofsure

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Jasmine 4020 comes with an all application ban so I’d say no. GW

      On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  182. Hi I have an inquiry regarding applying for a visa under public interest criteria.. My Permenant Residency visa was refused due to I provided false information while applying for spouse visa, I been to australia on visit visa and applies for protection visa on a different passport before but application was not sucessful and went back to my home country and applied as a spouse which was approved and while I was wating for my citizenship ceremony I received a letter asking me about my conduct so long story short my visa was cancelled while I was overseas, where I dont have any rights to appeal, so if I want to apply for a visa under public interest criteria what forms shall I fill and how to apply, the lawyers I tried just ask for
    Money first and that to they dont gurantee anything, can I apply by my self? Plz if you can help me out because its my wifes life I dont want to destory as she is citizen of australia and cant go back without me.. Your help will be a big favour to me…
    Kind Regards

  183. Thank you George

  184. Mr. Williams how to apply partner visa again and my partner is with me, she has to be in shore to apply for partner visa? And from your experience what are the chances? They already cancelled my visa then why will they issue me a visa again?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Azeem What I am saying is that the only thing you can now do is depart and apply for an offshore partner visa. You need to get some face to face help as you have a complex situation and I’m not sure I’m clear how you managed to get into this mess. GW

      On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  185. Hi Grant

    It’s Sachin here, and I wanted to confirm again if my 885 visa has been refused on the grounds- providing false/ bogus documents and the case is in MRT.
    However, I have tried the expression of interest and now they have sent an invitation to apply for visa subclass 189. As per section 48, I have to be offshore if I apply another visa since my onshore visa has been refused once however my lawyer is saying I don’t have to be offshore if I apply for another one as they have sent an invitation so they can’t turnaround and deny it on the previous grounds. What would you recommend ?

    Kindly confirm.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sachin I’ve already told you what I think about s48. Not sure what your lawyer is saying but if you are uncertain ask DIAC. GW

      On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  186. hi Grant,
    i will be so glad for your great assistance as in what to say course my dream is on the line.

    i submitted an application to DIAC for a student Visa , after assessment a document(Bank Statement) is seen bogus and a PIC 4020 letter has been sent to me comment.
    At the moment i dont know what to do since my comment are very important.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I guess the first question is what document? Why are DIAC saying it is bogus?
      Impossible to comment without further info.

      • Hi Grant,
        Thank u for your quick response. It is my Bank Statement but DIAC only said they have evidence that makes it bogus. i have confirmed with my bankers and realised that there is inconsistency in account figures with the one i submitted and it is not a true reflection of my expected funds.
        since i lodge the application myself it is seen that i glanced through all documents before submitting.
        Please advice me

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Nathanneill I do not see how this would make the bank statement incorrect. I can see how you could have written the wrong amount on a form. This does not make sense. If you have somehow altered a bank statement or submitted someone elses bank statement and they have caught you , even if this was done by someone else on your behalf and DIAC have discovered this there is nothing you can say or do that will fix the problem. A bank statement is a bank statement. GW

        On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:30 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  187. Thanks so much for your quick response. it is my bank statement submitted along my student application. DIAC only said they have evidence that is bogus but did not disclose what makes it bogus.

  188. Hi
    true what DIAC is saying is true but i dont know how to avoid the 3 yr ban since i was not aware of the error. do i redraw the application?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Nathaniell Thought so well I’d withdraw it then. You still can suffer from sending a bougus document when you apply again though but at least you will not have a definite refusal and a certain 3 year ban. GW

      On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant, sorry to jump in.. The situation is similar to mine.. If this guy withdraws his application, his current visa expires and he applys again offshore after 1 full year them by the letter of the law DIAC wouldn’t refuse the visa based on PIC 4020 as ” no visa application has been made containing bogus documents has been made within a period of 12 months before his new application “. Is that sequence if events possible??

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Correct Mark which is why I was suggesting that he withdraw. However DIAC have a knack of finding reasons to refuse applicants who have this sort of history and offshore no review! Grant

        On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • If after 12 months, you reapply via a 457 visa does the company have grounds for a review??

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark If the Sponsorship and Nomination are approved the 457 can be reviewed but there must be a nomination approval in place for the MRT to consider it has jurisdiction – this is a relatively new view taken by the MRT’s legal section. GW

        On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • The sponsorship I.e the the company and the nomination I.e the postion????

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark I don’t know what ths means? GW

        On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • If the position is approved and the company itself is approved for sponsorship then can a persons individual case be reviewed for an off shore application? I understand the application to have 3 parts, company needs to approved for sponsorship, the position itselfs needs to be approved within the company and then then actual person needs to be approved.. I’m wondering can the individuals part of the application be reviewed of rejected, by the company issuing an appeal? Also to decline a visa I’m I right in assuming that DIAC have to give a reason that fits the migration laws?

        Thanks for your time grant, you’ve been a great help to everyone that posts here

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark Anything that involves an Australian approved sponsorship has a review right. So yes. DIAC must give reasons. GW

        On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Sorry.. Also, if a visa is refused offshore, do they still need to give a legal reason for refusal?

  189. Hi.

    I have been applied sc 176 off shore visa while I’m on 485 skilled graduate visa. Recently I got refusal my 176 visa application as the immigration couldn’t verify my previous employment. Now they put me under pic 4020. I have applied for MRT. But now I can’t apply any visa in Australia as they put me under pic 4020. My current visa expires on 2014 February. I want to know how can I waive the pic 4020. Do you have any idea? Or any other way that I can apply for visa?
    My girl friend is Australian but I don’t want to marry her because if I have to leave Australia then she will alone. I’m really helpless n please inform me with any ideas.

    I really appreciate your reply. Please please

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I can see no basis under which you could waive this 4020. You only hope is to win at the MRT.

      • Hi grant
        Thanks for your valuable advice. What will happen if I marry my Australian girl friend? Would I be able to stay in Australian??

  190. Hi grant
    Thanks for your advice. What will happen if I marry my Australian girl friend? Would I be able to stay in Australia?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Buddhika This will have to be an offshore application GW

      On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  191. Hi grant,
    I am planning on applying for visa 190 with a positive state sponsorship.
    I have a positive skills assestment that i done 4 years ago.2 of the documents i used as a work experience letter are pretty bad.
    No company letter head,just typed on a computer quickly,printed and signed.
    They look like my younger sister made them.
    Im afraid that DIAC will call them bogus and refuse me with 4020
    Is it possable if i got new improved letters can i use them for my 190 application or do i have to use the same documents i used for my skills assestment?
    Thanks Damien

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Damien I’d get better letters. GW

      On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  192. Hello Sir,
    I applied with my husband for student visa and got refused with PIC 4020 in march 2011. can i apply after 3 years and the 4020 will matters in this case or not? can i get the visa again?
    Thanking sreeja

  193. That pic 4020 will matter or not when we reapply? can we get visa?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sreeja Not if the 3 year ban is over in theory but you can bet they will look at your application very closely as you have misled them before. Common sense! GW

      On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  194. Hi
    Please I want to apply under subclass 186 and my job is (391111) Hairdresser’ I scored 4.5 in each band IELTS and I want to know if I m qualified to apply under this subclass before my documents will be assessed by assessing Authority’ thanks

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No you do not qualify your English score must 6 in each band for direct pathway 5 in each band if you are currently on a 457 visa for 2 years in the transitional stream.

  195. Thank you so much and if you dont mind i would like to ask 1 thing that- Australia and New Zealand are closely related country and that 4020 will be concerned in New Zealand? can I get student visa there?

    Thanking you,

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sreeja NZ law is totally separate. 4020 is an Austrlaian public interest criterion. GW

      On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  196. hi this is navdeep here. Sir my friend applied for 885 visa as he did accounting course.he applied in march 2010 without IELTS 7 BANDS each but now his case officer is demanding the scores .Every tym he is able to get like 7 7 7 6.5 means he didnt get 7 bands in each .can we apply for extension.if he goes to MRT how much tym will they give to him…..thanks for ur time

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Navdeep No you will not get an extension and if he can’t get the score in time and DIAC reuse he cannot win at the MRT either as they cannot change the law at time of decision. The MRT is not a way of buying more time to pass the English test at the required level. GW

      On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • thanks sir for your reply.So what are the other alternatives we can try now.we got case officer he asked for IELTS SCORE but he didnt tell us the deadline date to submit it. …thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Navdeerp Options? There are no options. They ask and you supply the IELTS or they refuse the application. GW

        On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  197. Hi grant I really appricate about ur work I hav one query I applied for extantion on of my student visa and I was on bridging visa A in the mean time I travell overseas by getting bridging visa B my visa was refused when I was overseas not knowingly I came bck to Australia and started my college and after 2 months I get MSG on my mobile that u r leaving in Australia without visa then I reached to DIAC office and tell about my story that I was unaware of my visa status they again issue me bridging visa E on a departure grounds for nearly 2 weeks and I could not able to apply for mrt coz 28 days after visa was also passed DIAC told me that they had sent me email about my visa refusal unfortunately I could get or I deleted by mistake but I then depart Australia on bridging visa e My query is I have completed my diploma of hospitality and cookery certificate 4 as a cook and I do have a 1 year exp as a cook in Australia m I eligible for offshore GsM as DIAC officer told me that whenever u want to apply u have to write pic that how u r useful for Australia and Nz citizens and they told me that u might be affected for 3 years but it will depend on my case officer as I came without visa and again went to DIAC to change my visa condition from bridging visa b to a but they told it will b done automatically or I can come as a spouse visa with my wife as a student or I have to wait for 3 year for any application and if yes then when the date start count from
    The day of refusal or departure or. An can i apply for newzeland plzz plzz answer my queries in detail and also give ur some good advise if u are able to help me I will be happy to apply any application with ur help they have not mention any thing on written on a ban and they have written all the remarks which I had told them that I was not told by immigration status when I checked in Australia , help me with better options thanxxx grant

  198. If there is a 3 ban on my visa m I eligible for immigration in newzeland or my visa status of Australia will affect my application on newzeland can I go on spouse visa to newzeland plzz give ur kind and knowledgable advice grant thanx

  199. Thanxxx grant for ur replies…

  200. Hi Grant,
    I am from India, earlier filed a VE 176 family sponsored visa and it was rejected as the employment could not be verified. Following a review, I have a recent MRT success as the case was remitted to the department with the direction that I meet the employment criteria for visa grant.

    I belong to priority group 4. I have a reply from the immigration that 2012-2013 planning level have reached. I have wasted 3 years of mine trying for Australian migration. Could you please help me by suggesting when do I have the chance of getting a PR or if I ever get one?

    Thanks a lot for all suggestions you give through this blog,
    Jaswinder Singh

    • Hello Jaswinder, I have same case like you. Could you please email me I need to talk you. At my email Id is
      Thanks a lot.
      Thanks grant sir.

      • Hi Grant,
        I have an unusual issue in my case. I have applied for V885 (2 years back) with one year Australian experience (IT field in a reputed company). My case officer was not satisfied by my work experience (I had 10 months of fulltime experience and 6 months of part time 2.5 days per week – 17.5 hours which doesn’t satisfy the 20 hours per week). She asked me for further documentation.
        My lawyer responded with some previous MRT wins of similar cases. After a year a new case officer recently emailed me to just update my AFP.
        My question is whether they are happy with my Layers response or still there is chance for them to reopen the old history. Does case officer change will have any impact on the situation?
        I have updated my AFP. Any thoughts on what I could expect?

        Thanks for your help in Advance!

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Sounds like they have rolled over on the work to me but it is impossible to be certain of course.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Jaswinder I assume this is telling you that you will have to wait until after 1 July 2013 to be considered. GW

      On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  201. I do not even know how I ended up here, but I thought this post was great.
    I don’t know who you are but definitely you’re going to
    a famous blogger if you are not already ;) Cheers!

  202. Hi Grant,

    I completed my two years of full time study in Australia. My student visa will expire soon. Therefore, I need to apply for a resident visa. I completed my 2 years of studies in Engineering. So can I apply for the skilled graduate 476 visa? I am quite confused about this because I remember seeing on the DIAC website that it is meant only for overseas students from recognized universities. It is a bit misleading because under the list of recognized universities, even Australian universities are included. I believe the only other option I have is the 485 visa. I really hope that I can apply for 476. Please advice.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I cannot assess this from the info you provide for your individual circumstances .
      Howver the 476 is for graduates of OVERSEAS universities. So I’d say no you must use the 485.

  203. hi
    m robin
    my case is in court after rejection from MRT with 4020 .
    mrt said they agree i worked in salon , but whatever written in exp letter that all not done . so they reject my case . now m in court .
    but at same salon ,same period same case , one of my frnd win case in mrt . even i gave her name in my interview .
    is her case is helpful for me in court .

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Rob The Court will not be interested in any of this.. they are not looking at the facts of the case they can only look at the legal process to determine if you were dealt with according to law. I assume you have a lawyer. The court is not another case review. GW

      On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

    • hey robin sandhu
      i also have the same rejection problem u have with 4020 from mrt. may be we have exp from same saloon blktwn.can u please tell me if u can name of the person who won case in mrt.
      email is

    • hy robin

      i was also in same situation. have u find out any solution.i also lost from fedral court. can u tell me have u tried any other country or not. may be we also from same employer. try to apply for newzeland. student visa i got visa of newzeland visa.i back to india and applied for student visa to newzeland.
      Has anybody won from mrt from this employer

  204. hi grant
    one of my friend got rejection on ont having 7 bands each.he did accounting and case officer rejected him because of IELTS .after two weeks of rejection he got 7 bands each.Can he apply for MRT or they will also reject his file


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Navdeep If the IELTS was not submitted with the application (or was not valid at date of invitation) depending on the type of visa which you do not specify then DIAC had to refuse the application no matter what score he got. No he cannot win at the MRT. GW

      On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  205. Hi grant I am currently affected by two sec 1) pic 4020 and 2) is S48 now I had departed Australia but can I apply for offshore pr application on my study and relevant Australian exprience , plzz assist my queries thanxx

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Taran I would have thought the 4020 means you have a 3 year application ban. GW

      On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  206. Hi grant I had applied for student visa in may 2011 and was on bridging visa till 25 jan 2012 and then my application get refused so I apply for mrt but apply out of
    Time frame lived there four mounths on BVE and then departed Australia wit pic 4020 and s48 my simple question is from where the 3 year ban does DIAC consider from first application that is may 2011 please assist grant

  207. hi grant ,
    my 485 visa file got refused on 12 jan 2013 and got pic 4020 and i have applied rsms on 16th july 2012 and got nomination already approved would this pic will applies to my rsms visa file whic was lodged on 21st aug 2012….

  208. RSMS which i lodged was offshore application ….waiting for ur reply thnxx

  209. Hi grant,I have recently been approved for state sponsorship.
    Im close to applying for my PR however i was arrested 2 years ago for assault with a weapon.I went on a 12 month peace bond.I just received my police cert which says i have an outstanding charge awaiting disposition.
    Can i still be approved with an outstanding charge?What are immigration like when it comes to this?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      That is a good behaviour bond and I would think DIAC will raise this as a Character issue and want to know the outcome before granting a visa. The previous conviction can also lead to please explain letters from the Character section before a visa is granted. I have seen these letters for quite minor offeces like low range DUI.

      • Thanks for the info,
        So should I go ahead an apply as I have only 3 weeks left until my invitation expires.
        Peace bond expires in July.

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        I cannot make that decision for you but you can at least fight about the conviction with some ho[e of winning if you don’t apply the result is obvious.

  210. Hi grant
    Recently DIAC rejected my 176 off shore PR visa application (as they couldnt veryfy my employment so now im subject to pic 4020)n I appealed against the decesion (MRT ) but when they reject my 176 off shore application I was on sc 485 visa still I’m on that sc 485 visa but it expires 2014 February .the letter sent my MRT says that I granted bridging visa until the case finalises but my question is since the 176 application is off shore one will I be granted a bridging visa after my 485 visa expires on 2014 February? Until MRT finish my case.The letter says I have been granted bridging visa but I doubt because its 176 off shore application. Grant please help me on this matter I need your help. Thanks

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Buddhika It is a sponsored visa hence you can get review and you are onshore when you applied so that is why the BVA was granted to come into place when the 485 expires. GW

      On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi Grant

        Thanks for your reply.
        I was rejected for a 176PR visa and I got a refusal notification on 1 February 2013. Does the 3 year ban come into effect as of that date, or is it following the appeal should the MRT not overturn the decision?


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Buddhila Starts from the date of refusal. GW

        On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  211. Hi Grant, i have got pic 4020 under (Caramine case) and they cancelled my 885 visa on basis of pic 4020, i have lodged MRT on 18/May/2012. now i am working in bakers delight and my employer is ready to sposnser me (RSMS).
    my question is can i lodge a offshore file for Rsms and how many chances are there to get an visa, and is there any chances to win MRT?what you think which is the best way for me.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      If you ahve used bogus paperwork I’d say you have no chance at the MRT.
      The 4020 is basically a 3 year application ban so I’m not sure how you plan to get around that to lodgean RSMS.

  212. Hi Grant thanks for ur reply ,i want to ask u one more thing, my sister in law is a maths teacher in india and she has 6 years work experience, can she lodge her file for permanent residency on skill visa? and how many bands she needs in ielts?

  213. hi grant i went to immigration day before yesterday and i had asked them if submitted a file and immigration officer in doubt with documents that are they genuine or not and they ask to comment on it in case without any comment if client withdraw his or her file then the ban expected for a year. and if department refuse a file due to misleading information or fake documents then ban would be for 3 year .

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Tanishq Yes but what is your question? This is a statement of what you have done. GW

      On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi good evening sir ,, that was my question my friend had done that thing and on immigration site it doesn’t clear about that 4020 behalf of him i went to immigration moreover i have been following your blog from since long time and its really good job that u are doing and sharing your experience with us . thank you so much Grant for helping us. may God give you long life.
        thank you sir……

  214. Hi grant.
    I have been refused my visa 3 years ago for pc 4020. I had 3 year ban for any my 3 years ban is over but I have been living in Australian illegally since my visa refused. I married with my girl friend during that time. She is Australian. I am still living here in Australia illigaly with out a visa but my 3 years ban is over. Will I be able to apply for visa now or they will deport me if I go to DIAC to ask or apply for any visa.

    Grant don’t take me wrong. Please advice me what should I do? Please I need your kind help.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The first thing you need to do is to get some face to face advice – you can call me to discuss this.
      Remember this is a public forum so don’t post again just call to talk to me i=while at work after 10.30 am Mon to Thur.
      Grant Williams
      JP 195363
      Registered Migration Agent
      MARN 0854799
      Immigration Pty Ltd
      Suite 35 / 647 – 649 George St Sydney 2000
      PO Box K1221 Haymarket NSW 1240
      Telephone: +61 2 92114694
      Mobile: +61 (0) 430351877

  215. Hi grant
    My 176 visa refused by DIAC this year February because of pic 4020. And I appealed it to MRT. My question is can I apply for another visa while my case on MRT? Because I have been with my girl friend a year now n we want to get marry ( she is Australian) but I’m doutful even if I get marry her that I can apply for fiancé visa as I’m subject to 4020 now. What can I do? Can I waive my pic 4020 n apply for the visa? Or if I apply wil the reject my visa straight away even if my girl friend is Australian. Please help me grant. What are the other option I have ? Thanks. Lot. Kurupp

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You have more problems than you think. You are on a BVA I assume and this means you are subject to Schedulke 3 requirements if you attempt to lodge an onshore Partner application. The 176 is an offshore application so the s48 ban does not apply but this could have been waived in any case for a Partner application. The PIC 4020 problem is not immediately fatal to partner applications but it may depend on what you have done as DIAC can raise a Character issue and this can be a problem but my guess is it will not. In summary the major reason why an onshore Partner will not be successful in your case is the Schedule 3 issue. The only way to lodge a Partner application for you would be offshore.

      • Thank you very much for your reply grant. I’m still on sc 485 visa which will expire 2014 feb after that my bva come in to action I think until the MRT make decision. If that’s the case what you think the best option for me? If I’m going to apply off shore partner application how can I do it? Can you please help me grant. & how long I have yo stay away in Australia to apply off shore application ?

        Thank you very much

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Kuruupu You hold a substantive visa (You did not mention this kast time!) which means you can apply onshore for a Partner visa as soon as your relationship is eligible. GW

        On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant.

        Can you please explain what are eligibility for partner visa? Thanks grant

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Kuruupu This is all easily available on the DIAC website if you bother to look I’m not here as a substitute for simple reading. It means Married or in a de facto relationship actually living together and not permanently apart for a minimum of 12 months or in a Registered (in an Aust State or Territory) de facto relationship – not all state have registration. GW

        On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant thanks for reply. I didn’t mean that,I meant eligibility means whether I can apply for the partner visa or not, because now I’m under pic 4020(for my previous 176 application).Sorry if i misunderstood you.I thought I can’t apply for any visa until the 3 year ban finished. As you said I will go through aDIAC site. As your knowledge it shouldn’t be a problem for me to apply for partner visa even now I’m under pic 4020? If so should I apply for my partner visa before my sc485 finishes on 2014 February? Thanks sir

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Kruuupu PPartner visas are the only ones that will not be impacted by the 4020 unless as I said before you have done something really silly. GW

        On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant.
        The DIAC couldn’t verify my previous work experience. That’s why the case officer rejected my 176 off shore application. That’s the reason grant the rejected my application. But everything was genuine documents and they all genuine experience. Thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Kuruupu That will niot be a problem GW

        On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  216. Sorry the previous part was accidentally posted before it got completed.
    Hi Grant,
    I got in to this post when I received a letter from DIAC mentioning this clause. DIAC claims that my ILETS document is a bogus document as the picture in the passport and ILETS document has some dissimilarities. But both are genuine documents. My passport photo was taken in the studio and do not know whether it has any problem in that.
    I have travelled abroad with this passport and got VISAs using this passport. I only wrote ILETS exam after verification was done by authorities using the same passport.

    I have only two ways to prove my case. The first option is via IDP. I appeared IELTS exam via IDP. They normally check the passport before allowing the candidates to take test. They also take finger prints. I thought they can help me by comparing my finger print. But when I contacted IDP, they informed that they could not help me.
    I appeared ILETS exams three times all the time I used the same passport and the passport number is mentioned in TRFs. So I plan to submit these TRFs and also stating that they did the checks during the examination process.

    The second option is via passport. This current passports is my second passport and I have my old expired passport also with me. I can submit that also so that they can check the photo in that with IELTS TRF. I have also got PCC recently and that photo was taken by passport authorities and I submitted that already to DIAC. I can ask them to verify that photo with IELTS TRF. I also plan to apply for a new passport and submit that also to DIAC for verification. Nowadays the new passport’s photo is taken by passport authorities and they also compare the finger prints they took already before they issue a new passport.

    Please let me know whether this approach solves the problem.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Yes these are all good strategies. You need to push DIAC to send all thes photos to their facial recognition section. So far they may have just looked at the photos and come to this conclusion via visual inspection. DIAC have a highly sophisticated digital facial recognition system that will sort this out so you need to ask that they make these teats. Photos often look different for all sorts of reasons but you need to reuest that they are checked with the technology as this will sort it out.

  217. HI Grant,
    I got visa refusal for subclass 485 under pic 4020. I can not apply for any visa for three years. If my partner applies for student visa and I am included as a dependent. Do we get student visa or no?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Karan You will not but your partner may get the visa if they meet the criteria. Being a secondary applicant does not avoid the exclusion period. GW

      On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  218. Hi Grant,

    Thanks for the reply. I will try these steps.

    I also believe that they have already done the comparison using digital facial recognition system because when we see visibly we could not find anything.

    The only bottleneck here is I may not get my new passport before 28 days dead line but I can submit the proof for applying a new passport with my reply. Do they consider that and wait for my actual passport or do they take action with out waiting?


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Kpriya Yes they should if you inform them. These cases are always odd and I have seen some overturned and some not when this evidence is presented. Do all that you can to convince them now as the review process is very long. GW

      On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  219. Hello there i have a enquirey will be great if i can get any help. i am on section PIC 4020, but now my work is willing to sponsor me and provide subclass 457. is there any way that i can waive the PIC condition or apply the visa 457 OFFSHORE.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      The only chance is offshore and the only hope of waiving 4020 is if the employer can show that you are a vital employer and that they cannot find anyone else in Australia. They must demonstarte compelling reasons affecting the business and this is very difficult. generally the answer is no.

  220. Hi Grant,
    After reading the posts here, I am convinced that it is the right place for some good advise.
    After waiting for more than 3 years in 886 visa queue, I have got a letter from the CO asking to comment on bogus experience certificate putting PIC 4020 on my case. I used to work voluntarily in one of Fine Indian restaurant in Melbourne during and after my studies. Now I have been living in WA for over three years and had no contact with the owner.
    I am assuming that The manager of the restaurant failed to recognise me when the enquiry was conducted. I can understand that you cannot remember faces or names after few years but I am just wondering if he was also involved in bogus document scam.
    Its sad that working 900 hours without pay and putting hard work, I am in same boat as others who bought the experience
    And with 28 days to answer, please suggest me something or should I pack my bags as I donot want myself to be called a cheat .

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You need to find the person who employed you in Melbourne and get Statutory Declarations from the owners and possibly other employees who may still be there. I assume you have employment records of some sort to show to the owner(s) Don’t give up that easily.

      • Hi, I hate to say this but u had better prepare to leave the country, pic 4020 is a crazy rules n australian immi does not want any more immigrants, all they want is the application fees from applicants, they don’t care ab the true or false. I faced the same prob, CO CALLED my boss to confirm my employment, he couldn’t recognise the name hence he said he will call them back, after that he did call back to confirm my employment but immi CO SAID I was subject to pic 4020, I submitted stat declaration from my boss, tax records, reference letter from colleagues but CO still refuse the visa , CO even misapply the 2 year timeframe on my colleagues’ letter . But I can’t do anything cause they don’t give any review rights for offshore application. Paying $3000 n got a unfair decision but can’t do anything ab it !!! Look like australian immigration is making a fortune out of refused applications!!!

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suti To be a little fair to DIAC you do admit that the owner did not not call back and therefore they made a decision. You can’t unwind a decision once it is made and the owner did have the opportunity to do the correct thing and did not. GW

        On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Thanks Grant for your motivation,
        I m trying to chase my previous owner and say if i supply the documents you suggested, is there any chance of positive outcome and i donot want them to impose 3 year cheat ban on me. Also i m considering the option of doing bachelors degree, can i apply student visa now?
        Distressed Suresh

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Suresh The way to think of it is there is no chance of a positive outciome unless you provide this evidence. If you have an onshore refusal or even in these circumstances I cannot see DIAC giving you another student visa. Once refused you can only apply offshore. GW

        On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  221. can i apply for any other kind of visa to australia as my student visa application 572 has been refused on PIC 4020 on compelling and compassionate reasons………………… please just want to know if i can apply for a visit visa or tourist visa if am to apply australia soon. pls advice me on this.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courage You have an application ban of 3 years in these circumstances which will prvent any TR application. GW

      On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Respected Sir , I m suffering pic4020 ban for 3 years . I met couple of immigration agent some saying u can get rsms and some saying u can’t . I m very confuse who is right ? Who has full knowledge about this fundamental . I heared about ur great experience regarding immigration laws . I will wait ur response . Pls find a way for students who suffering from pic4020. Thanks

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Ram DIAC generally will not apply the 3 ban to PR applications so RSMS should work. However it will depend on the 4020 issue – if it has a Character problem associated with it this can be a problem for PR. Gw

        On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant, what do you mean when you say character issue? What examples would that be?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark Is this just a random question or are you the person whose question I was answering? GW

        On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant, different person.. We spoke some time ago, I’m in a similar situation with 4020 for fraud was wonder what goes against some1s character?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Mark DIAC take a dim view of fraud as it is a crime. If a 4020 is applied because they could not verify a work reference to their satisfaction that is probably not a huge issue going forward but if they have proof that a person produced and tendered a false qualification certificate for example or intentionally misrepresented their existence or whereabouts of a family member to gain an immigration advantage they will address this with a s501 character letter – please explain etc… may not end up being fatal to an application but it will not help. So it depends what you did basically. GW

        On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hello Grant, as you said above 4020 not apply to PR application.
        I refused 856 onshore application and I applied on the basis of overseas qualification. As general electronics instrument trades person but in Australia I have commercial cookery, diploma of management and advance diploma of management. 3 certificate.
        I can apply any rams application or 457 visa on the basis of cookery.
        They refused because they said we are not satisfied your Indian work experience because me and my employer mismatch statement.
        Or my wife included into my refused application just one week before. She can apply any visa or not??
        Please reply as your most convenient.

  222. Hello Grant, as you said above 4020 not apply to PR application.
    I refused 856 onshore application and I applied on the basis of overseas qualification. As general electronics instrument trades person but in Australia I have commercial cookery, diploma of management and advance diploma of management. 3 certificate.
    I can apply any rams application or 457 visa on the basis of cookery.
    They refused because they said we are not satisfied your Indian work experience because me and my employer mismatch statement.
    Or my wife included into my refused application just one week before. She can apply any visa or not??
    Please reply as your most convenient.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Sonu You cannot make any onshore application as you will have a s48 onshore application bar. You may be able to apply from offshore but I cannot assess this from this info and I do not make application assessment on the Blog. GW

      On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  223. hi grant , i was reading this blog from last 2 hours all the comments. its great how you put your precious time into this blog and help people.
    my situation is i have done secondary school and diploma in nursing in Australia. i am on 457 visa working as ENROLLED nurse in rural area. i have applied 187 visa rsms. i am married and my husband has got the PIC 4020. My case officer told me to include my husband in my application as being secondary application as i am in married relation.. i was not included in his application for which he has got 4020. we have been living together from last 4 years . i am wandering will him being in my application will affect my visa as well. or no. thanks a lot.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Reet No it should be OK – if he is here he may have to depart to get the visa though. GW

      On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 1:52 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • thanks a lot grant .my migration gent said its also fine that it wont be refused and i am the primary applicant and i am ticking all the boxes of rsms checklist . but dont know really scared . either we both will be through or both will be in MRT . thanks a lot really appreciate

  224. Hi Grant. you are doing a really Great job to helping all peoples with you wide experience.sir is there is any hope for pic 4020 people, what is the best way to get out of this stressed life,sir my question is when the 3 year bans start for pic 4020 after visa refused or MRT refused, my 885 refused on pic 4020 basis and i am on MRT right now, but where i am working my owner ready to sponsor me (Rsms) i am not sure if i apply for RSMS (OFFSHORE) is that ban applies on me?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Basically you can apply RSMS from offshore but it may depend on what you did to get 4020 applied to your file. Not all false and misleading cases are the same.

      • Hi Grant, thanks for your reply, my 885 refused last yearon caramine bases then I applied for MRT, I been to some lawyers all have different opinion some says you can apply for Rsms and get waiver, some says you can’t because of three year ban? So very confused what I will do.. Is it possible to get an waiver on pic 4020?? Regards

      • Hii shah
        I got same case of carmine . Please contact me to chat about it
        Thanks Ajay

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Shah For RSMS you can apply offshore. GW

        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi Grant,

        Applying Rsms can save me from pic 4020, is there any hope to Get a granted visa for(rsms offshore) ?


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Shah It is not that simple I’m afraid – you should seek professional help before committing to any application. GW

        On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  225. Hi Grant,
    How are You,Thanks for your Replies, sir i have one more query, sir can i apply for skilled migration For any another commonwealth country as a skiiled worker/ student? will pic 4020 effect me there as well?

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Shah I only do migration to Australia however I cannot see how a 4020 DIAC ruling can affect another application. having said that most countries ask have you had a visa application to any country refused and then ask why. GW

      On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  226. MY CASE

    i am in visa subclass 475 which is generall skilled migration visa from WA which was granted on 9th july 2012

    After that I had applioed Visa subclass 190 from WA under the same document in 4th feb 2013.

    In response I got
    There is no evidence before the Minister that the applicant has given, or caused to be given, to the Minister, an officer, the Migration Review Tribunal, a relevant assessing authority or a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth, a bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular in relation to:
    (a) the application for the visa; or
    (b) a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the application was made.

    The document that i submitted on boyh visa are same.
    My document are genuine I had shown experience from my company in nepal as a civil engineer later on when they enquire about the company
    they found there is no any company on mention address and
    cannot contact them on the phone number given,
    later i came to know the company was moved to other places and changed the contact details as well.
    Now because i am in Visa subclass 475 I have a requirement of two years regional stay and 1 year full time job. I already cross 1 year just one more year to go to get the permanent residency.
    I came in Australia in 2011 where my husband was here from 2007 in sydney. I am not getting the job in my profession so I am just waiting for one more year after that I am planning to go to sydney,
    Now I dont want to argue with the immigration about the 190 because it is taking time and I will have to stay on sponsered state for two more year after the visa is grant. Moreover I was doing my professional job in my own profession in sydney just want to go back there as soon ads I can.
    In immigration response it says that I can withdraw my application at any time while processing. CAN I WITHDRAW MY APPLICATION AND REMAIN ON CURRENT visa 475
    Will it affect my current visa or the permanent residency that i will be applying later
    I will be so thankful to you if you answer my querry please.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Why not just expalin the change in the company contact details and let them process the 190? If you don’t do that it really does look like a bogus document has been provided. This is not arguing with DIAC it is just telling the truth and providing them with the requested info.
      Yes it can affect any future application.

  227. hello grant
    i applied for TR in 2008 and refusal in july 2012 under pic 4020.i am individual in that file.
    i married to my wife in march,2011 and she appleid for 487 in april 2010 now dimia sent her letter for comments under pic 4020 because of my refusal .she is by herself in that file .
    my question dimia can refuse her file too because of my refusal under pic 4020.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      No I do not beoieve so but they will do these checks on her immedicate family and that is you.

  228. hi sir, i just want to know that i m in the same case of caramaine,the case officer has sent us mail to comment ,so we sent the response, but still nearly one year after we did not get any response, my question is that still we have any chance to withdraw the file and put any other visa,so that pic4020 will not apply.thx, waiting for ur reply

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I do not believe that withdrawal will avoid 4020 as the farud was committed and the false docs provided to DIAC. The only point will be you will see this raised as sooin as you lodge any other application.

  229. Hi Sir, my MRT refused in this April 2013. Now I applied minister appeal. My question is if I marry with PR boy then I can able to stay here and 3 years ban condition will remove or not??
    Thanks Navneet

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      NAVNEET Why do you have a 3 year ban? You will need to depart and lodge any partner application offshore. You CANNOT apply onshore and get the visa granted. GW

      On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  230. Hello sir,

    I applied 485, and my 485 file was allocated.and then they asked documents, and in feb. 2012 they went for inspection for 900 work experience. since then i haven’t contacted department. and then i just applied 187 in may.

    and now suddenly my 187 case officer asked for TRA. and just after 2 days i received mail regarding 485 application, and they said pic 4020 applied on me because of bogus documents provided for TRA. as the experience is so old like 5 years old. and from my country, it’s getting hard to find witness and people who worked at the same time as me. in the mail, 4020(1) and 4020(4) is been written.

    I doubt that 187 case officer is asking because of the same reason about my TRA.
    what is the best solution to this and get 187 approved. ?
    can i just withdraw 485 now before the decision made ?

    looking forward for the solution.


  231. hello sir,
    i applied 485 3 years ago.
    i just recently applied 187 in may.
    i received documents request for 187 and been asked documents for nomination application and TRA for visa application,
    couple of days, later i received email from 485 Case officer, saying that my work experience for TRA seems to be bogus after their visit to my employer last year. and said for commenting and pic 4020(1) and 4020(4) is described in mail.
    as because the experience is more than 5 years old, so really hard to get documents from the employer.
    i doubt that for my 187 they asked the TRA because of then same reason.
    what is the solution to this problem.
    what if i withdraw 485 and 187 and then apply for new 187. ?
    Will it be any helpful for getting 187 approved ?

    looking forward for your reply.


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Of course the two things are related it is the same problem. You will find the CO for the 187 will also need the same proof. Just saying it is too hard after all this time will only = visa refusal.
      You have to get solid proof. Just withdrawing does not make the provision of a document disappear.

      • If i withdraw, i will face the same problem in future application?, even if TRA is not the requirement for the application? They will ask the TRA thing again ?
        And as i was reading the waiver points stating compelling the circumstances of australia’s interest and an australian permanent or citizen’s interest. How does this work?
        As i have job offer in regional area and i am working there. Company’s owner is australian. And also the head chef too. Any letter’s from them can help to waive this situation ?

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        They will only ask for TRA if it is necessary but your file will say supplied false and or misleading info to DIAC.
        The waiver is complex and the circumstances have to be quite unusual.

      • Hello sir,

        thanks a lot for your help.
        After withdrawing the files, how long the comments about the misleading information will be there with my applications ?
        And what can be the circumstances to waive this ? Any examples. ? So if i can think of something.


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Rahul Forever If you need that level of help you will need to make an appointment to consult with a professional agent near to you. Too complicated for a Blog answer. GW

        On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  232. Hi Rahul,
    My friend had the same issue. where is Australia are you currently working? J

  233. Hi Grant,
    I am about to apply for subclass 489 but my partner has been subjected to three years exclusion period. I would like to know what can I do to bring him back to australia.
    Ruby Bhamrah

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Ruby Try including your partner. At worst it will not work. It will not affect your application and you must declare a partner in any application. GW

      On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  234. Hi Grant
    This I Navdeep. me and my sister r citizen here.We have one Elder brother living in London and working as chef in Radisson Hotel from 4 years. He have Bachelor Degree in Hospitality. He wanted to migrate here to Australia Permanently. What are the options. His wife also have brother living here in Australia as PR.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      I do not make application assessments on the Blog nad it is impossible to assess from this amount of information.
      You need to get your brothers resume and make an appointent to see an experienced migration agent face to face.

  235. Hi Grant,

    Friend of mine has applied for 457 visa and DIMIA have imposed section 4013 Public Interest criteria (PIC) since his student visa was cancelled under section 137J of the Migration Act 1958 because they think that an applicant breached a condition relating to attendance or satisfactory academic performance.

    He was on Bridging visa E and had no work, study or travel rights. He has applied for MRT but his file has been withdrawn the day he left the country to apply for 457.

    DIMIA is saying that the visa can be only granted after exclusion period OR he has to provide an information which shows that there are compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or there are compelling or compassionate circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen.

    What can be done in this case?
    Any suggestions?

    He had a chat with his employer and his employer is willing to respond to his case officer by writing a letter and provide an information on how important my friend is for his business.

    Now the question is that what sort of document would satisfy the case officer?
    Is letter going to be satisfactory?

    He is overseas at the moment.

    I am looking forward to hearing back from you.

    Thank you.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      John The employer needs to be able to convince DIAC that this person for whatever reason is essential to the business. This then falls under the …affecting the interests of an Aust citizen. It is difficult to be specific as I have no details of the occupation, his qualifications for it and the business and its employment needs. The employer really needs to get some face to face help to write this request to waiver the exclusion period so that they can demonstrate for example that the employment of this person on a 457 will – maintain the employment of other Australian employees, create new business opportunities etc… GW

      On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  236. Hi Grant,

    sir i would like to question about when the 3 years ban applies on pic 4020 applicant, is that starts from the day when i got Refusal of my visa letter or it starts After MRT Decision?


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Shah From the DIAC refusal date. GW

      On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  237. Hi Grant,
    I would like to know if that ban of 3 years starts from the time I got refusal or after the MRT decision was out. And if my partner applies for 190 or 489 , is it Ok to include me or it will effect her visa status too.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      From the date of DIAC refusal.
      No but it will most likely make it slower to process and all that will happen is your partner will get the visa (if they meet the criteria of course) and you will be left out as ineligible. So no real point.

      • hi grant ,
        i have applied rsms 187 .and my case officer told me to include my husband (got 4020) and he has granted bridging visa for him for 187 as secondary applicant .case officer has been allocated for last 5 months no movement except bridging visa for my husband . as being as primary applicant i do meet all criteria .should we look into waiving this 4020.but i am confused as why then case officer asked me to include my husband .i would really appreciate your time .


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Reet For now do nothing they will contact you if they see this as an issue for PR which it may well not be. The exclusion is often applied to TR not PR GW

        On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi Grant, Its been awhile and this Courage. I had a PIC refusal on my
        (student visa application 572) on the 24th July 2012 and will like to know when can i apply again ??? and when can i do that pls.

  238. I have applied mrt under 4020 pic can I apply for rsms visa

    • Can u apply my rsms visa , I live in Melbourne , I have been convicted in carmine case

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Jasmine If you are asking if I am interested in taking on your case I am not. Sorry. GW

        On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Jasmine You can apply but it may be that DIAC will refuse the application on 4020 grounds unless you can convince them to waive the ban. GW

      On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  239. Hi Grant, Its been awhile and this Courage. I had a PIC refusal on my
    (student visa application 572) on the 24th July 2012 and will like to know when can i apply again ??? and when can i do that pls.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Courgae Add 3 years GW

      On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi grant
        Can u book an phone appointment on monday please.i applied pic 4020.i need to talk to u. I m in perth now.thank u

  240. Hello Grant, I am under PIC4020. My application 886 was refused in 15 sep 2010 then I went in MRT which I lost in 4jan 2013 after that I went in federal court which I lost too now I have appeal in ministerial court and I am on breaching visa E now, so I can not apply any other application pls tell me when this 3years bar will going to finish on me and I am in relation with permanent resident girl here, can I marry her under PIC4020. Please replay

  241. Hello Grant, I am really in tension pls help me to come out from this problem.I am under PIC 4020. My application 886 was refused in 15 sep 2010 then I went in MRT which I lost in 4 jan 2013 after that I went in federal court which I lost too now. I have appeal in ministerial court and I am on breaching visa E now, so I can not apply any other application pls tell me when this 3 years bar will going to finish on me and I am in relation with permanent resident girl here, can I marry her under PIC 4020. Please replay…

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      You cannot apply onshore for a partner visa. You will have to depart to apply. No simple solution I’m afraid as you are at the end of the line and really you are abusing the system as it is.

  242. hi grant. I have appled 176 offshore pearmanet visa application while im studying in Australia. but the case office was rejected my 176 offshore application as DIAC couldn’t verify my work experice back in my country I have appleaed to MRT because all my experience was genuine claims. my question is when they rejected my 176 offshore PR visa I have been granted 485 visa because I completed my studies here , im still on that visa which will expire on feburary 2013. as im under 4020 I k heard that I cant apply for any girl friend is Australian & we been in relation ship nealy 2 years & now we going to get marry end of this year with both of our families blessings. we are planning to move to my country as I have 3 year ban to apply for visa. is there any option that I can do ?? im still on 485 visa

    I really appreciate your advice


    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      They will not apply the exclusion period to your onshore Partner application. Just lodge it here before your 485 visa expires.

  243. Hi Grant,
    applied 187 rsms visa incl my husband as secondary applicant, husband had 4020 pic but i was not included in his application was not even married to him. received CO email, i need to show circumstances to waive pic 4020 otherwise he will refuse my application. I have got letter from my organisation saying how important i am all those reasons to waive it preparing to reply with my agent , just seeking opinion i don’t understand why i have got 4020 only because my husband had.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Really that is all you can do. Not sure that means what you say and you have 4020. Often in these circumstances you cna get the visa nad the secondary applicant is denied. Hard to say without actually seeing all the paperwork exactly what is going on. DIAC do make errors so keep a close eye on what is happening.

      • Hi grant,
        thanks for your reply . diac said 4020 applies to all family memebers if ine has got it . doesnot matter whether you was in application or not
        so ….! really dont know


      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Aman DIAC can apply a policy of one fails all fail in applications. I assume this is what they are referring to. The only option is to get it waived. GW

        On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • Hi sir,
        One of my friend got sponsorship of Accounting of regional area in NSW Southern Island he already moved there but he is not been able to adjust there so can he move to another regional area. Can he move to another place in Australia .What is the options for him….thanks Grant

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Navdeep He needs to try harder as really there are not options he has signed a declaration to work and live there. GW

        On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  244. hi Grant
    gud to see there is someone who is helping frustrated souls.
    just a quick question,if my visa refused 2day under pic 4020.i will get 3year ban.and i go to mrt and court etc long they take? i meant if they take 2 years ,,in that case do i have one years left? or ban start after i leave country (after mrt court..) pls reply
    thank u

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Starts from the date of DIAC refusal and how long appeals take depends on the veracity of the claims you are making.

    • Respected Sir,
      Any good news for the candidates who suffer from PIC4020. I heared from someone who tell us very soon immigration reduce the time frame of PIC4020. It’s true or only rumour . Specially thanks for u cuz u r doing great job .God Bless U

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Ram Definitely a rumour. DIAC have just extended 4020 to cover all applicantions. GW

        On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

  245. Hi Grant
    How are you, sir i want to ask after 3 years ban if i apply again for australia on student/skilled immigration is there is any hope to get an visa agian or it is impossible to get an visa.

    • Immigration Pty Ltd

      Shah An exclusion period of 3 years is exactly what it says as far as I know. GW

      On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

    • Thanks!!!

      • hi grant i have a question i applied for skillled 189 from india but this month i received a letter to comment on pic 4020 the department thinks that i have provided bogus documents i just want to know what are the chances of getting visa after this allegation if i try to justify myself moreover my employer is not willing to provide me any documents to justify myself what are ur suggestions should i withdraw my application or take a chance by providing them a letter from my side explaining my circumstances just guide me or if they impos a ban on me can i apply for same visa in the future i m confusednwhether to withdraw my app or take a chance plz guide me my documents were genuine but at the time of job verification my employer said that he does notnknow any thing about the reference letter and he did not sign it and takes no responsibility regarding this my employer played a game with me he did signed experience letterss so what should i do know he is not providing me with any documents to justify myself plz guide me what should i do as i have extended the 28 days time given to me by the department

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        Amarjiy If you do not have the employer to back you up DIBP will refuse the application and apply 4020. Even if you withdraw they can still raise the fact that false or misleading info has been provided when a new application is lodged. You really need to sort this out with the employer but it does not sound promising at all. GW

        On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • sir i m planning to leave my job now after my employer did id this to me my question is that how can i claim points for my exp if i wish to apply again in futre obviously this record of mine will be with department with same i had also applied fot sub class 136 in the year 2007 but after all the processing they said that my application was under capping and ceasing and refunded me my visa fees in 2010 my question in can i clarify myself with my current application and tell the department in my clarification to check all the details of my previous application will their be any chances of getting my visa after referring about my prevvious application or should u suggest i should withdraw

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        amarjiy No DIBP will not look up old applications to get your details for you. When uou apply you must give them all new evidence. GW

        On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • sir thanks for reply i have one more question as my present employer is not willing to give me any documents in written so what is your suggestion should i withdraw my application or or give the department a reply from my side by writing a letter more i took time extension from the department plz guide me as i want to take a decision on my present application

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        amarjiy I am afraid there is very little you can do if the employer is not willing to assist you. There is no magic solution that will make DBP happy in this circumstance. GW

        On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • so it means should i withdraw atleast so that i can be safe from pic 4020 i am very disppointed i m gnuine and my exp is genuine its only because of my employer conspiracy that i m in such situation
        if i withdraw after how much time can i apply again sir does it will have negTive impact on my future application or should i apply in another trade at present i have TRA assessment as a FITTER so can i apply for motorcycle mechanic as i also have the knowledge and exp of it or sir plz guide me as i m very disappointed i m sorry if i am bothering you again and again sir

      • Immigration Pty Ltd

        amarjiy Withdrawing does not prevent 4020 being raised next time you apply but it does prevent a refusal and a ban. There is no limit in time for reapplication. Yes it will have a negative impact as DIBP now regard the info provided as false and it has been given to them. All you can do is try. GW

        On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Australian Immigration Blog – Grant

      • should i withdraw to be safe from pic 4020 and also if ibwithdraw when can i apply again

  246. hi grant is it easy to get visa after 3 yr ban has complete.